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Other Races [v2.0]
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| helGn |
Posted on 20-08-2008 16:33
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Domestique
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issoisso wrote:
helGn wrote:
he doesnt stand a chance, but third place is a good placing. all i'm saying 
I didn't mean you. I said let's hope it doesn't happen in the future
This, because most norwegian cycling fans (most of whom haven't actually seen hagen ride) think he'll be a grand tour contender, that he can handle hills that's he's great in cobbles.
None of which is true...
i hope just hope the hills and cobbles can handle him in the future. i also thing the grand tours should be 30 stages, so that hagen could start feeling tired atleast once a year! |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 20-08-2008 16:49
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Tour de France Champion
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I bow to your sarcasm sir
now say he's got the speed to be a good sprinter. go on, I dare you! 
Edited by issoisso on 20-08-2008 16:51
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| helGn |
Posted on 20-08-2008 17:39
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Domestique
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i think it shouldn't be named sprinter anymore! hagen is a more fitting name! |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 20-08-2008 17:46
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Tour de France Champion
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The bastard whose name will not be mentioned won the stage and proceeded to throw up a gigantic linguistic Gaffe during the interview. What an idiot.
Meanwhile in important races that Really matter, the Trittico Lombardo has started with Francesco Ginanni of Diquigiovanni having his career breakthrough by winning the Hors Category classic Tre Valli Varesine.
The Coppa Agostoni followed today with Linus Gerdemann winning, and the Coppa Bernocchi will follow shortly, to end the Trittico Lombardo and we'll see who succeeds the last 3 winners, Danilo Napolitano, Danilo Napolitano and Danilo Napolitano.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| helGn |
Posted on 20-08-2008 19:03
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Domestique
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good to see linus gerdemann back. |
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| Goldberger |
Posted on 20-08-2008 20:09
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Domestique
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issoisso wrote:
[This, because most norwegian cycling fans (most of whom haven't actually seen hagen ride) think he'll be a grand tour contender, that he can handle hills that's he's great in cobbles.
None of which is true...
Okay issoisso, im Norwegian and i believe Edvald can be a grand tour contender. If he can shed a few kilos and improve his mountain skills he can do good tours in the future, remember he's only 20 or 21 years old. And not all riders get their breaktrough in tough terrain in their early years, many riders reaches their top form in the mountains when they are 30++.
And it's not only norwegians who think Edvald can do big things in the Tour De France, Brian Holm and Bob Stapleton also thinks Edvald is one of the biggest talents in cycling. And yes he can handle hills( shown in Paris-Correze 2007 and Tour D'Avenir) and he has the characteristics and physique to ride well on the cobbles) Only Edvald himself together with Team Colombia will find out what type of rider he becames, wether it's a sprinter,hilly,grand tour or cobbles rider. Either way I am convinced he will have a great career. And please don't come with a smartass comment about Edvald's potential, because i now everything about Edvald, he is one of my favourite riders, and I have followed his entire career.
Edited by Goldberger on 20-08-2008 20:10
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| issoisso |
Posted on 20-08-2008 20:17
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Tour de France Champion
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Goldberger wrote:
Okay issoisso, im Norwegian and i believe Edvald can be a grand tour contender. If he can shed a few kilos and improve his mountain skills he can do good tours in the future, remember he's only 20 or 21 years old. And not all riders get their breaktrough in tough terrain in their early years, many riders reaches their top form in the mountains when they are 30++.
No, not their full potential. But they all show quality early. Edvald finishes 20 mins behind on mountain stages.
Goldberger wrote:
And it's not only norwegians who think Edvald can do big things in the Tour De France, Brian Holm and Bob Stapleton also thinks Edvald is one of the biggest talents in cycling.
Of course he is one of the biggest talents. So is Cavendish. Does that mean they can automatically handle mountains?
Goldberger wrote:
And yes he can handle hills( shown in Paris-Correze 2007 and Tour D'Avenir)
Hills are not mountains. Not even close. You do put up a great exampel...that supports my argument. He lost immense time in the mountains at the Tour de l'Avenir (there are no mountains in Paris-Corrèze)
Goldberger wrote:
and he has the characteristics and physique to ride well on the cobbles) Only Edvald himself together with Team Colombia will find out what type of rider he becames, wether it's a sprinter,hilly,grand tour or cobbles rider. Either way I am convinced he will have a great career.
yes, he will probably have a great career. But he will never be a climber. ever.
Goldberger wrote:
And please don't come with a smartass comment about Edvald's potential, because i now everything about Edvald, he is one of my favourite riders, and I have followed his entire career.
And the "smartass" part refers to what, exactly?
Edited by issoisso on 20-08-2008 20:22
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Stairs |
Posted on 20-08-2008 20:58
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Neo-Pro
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I have absolutely nothing to add to this thread but I just wanted to tell you all, that I for once actually agreed with Isso, although his arguments still tend to be very South European-like (uhh, tha stereotyping, yummi!)
That was all. Now, I'll leave you.
Never.
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| fefj |
Posted on 20-08-2008 21:09
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Domestique
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Stairs wrote:
I have absolutely nothing to add to this thread but I just wanted to tell you all, that I for once actually agreed with Isso, although his arguments still tend to be very South European-like (uhh, tha stereotyping, yummi!)
That was all. Now, I'll leave you.
Oh, don't leave ! You are my only friend ! |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 03:43
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| Dan_Grr |
Posted on 20-08-2008 22:33
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I don't know if he a tour winner potential, I think we already have some of those talents running around. Why not just have Hagen as a hilly or sprint talent? He would probably fit the bill okay. |
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| Goldberger |
Posted on 20-08-2008 22:58
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I can't believe you are so sure issoisso that Edvald never will become a good stage racer , Let me come with a prediction, it's impossible to predict how good Edvald will become and what kind of rider he will be.
Stapleton and Holm said that he has so much potential in every terrain that he can develop into a good rider in all sorts of races.
And you say that he can be a decent sprinter and a good time trialist. Last year most of Edvalds victory`s came in sprint finishes where he beat several established sprinters like Bernhard Eisel, this he's had less luck in the sprints but we must also remember that Edvald has been sick many times this year(started in the Tour of California) But I think Edvald has just as much potential in sprints.
It's no use saying he will never be a GC contender, simply because YOU don't know, youre making predictions based on mountain stages in Edvalds first year in the Pro Tour give him 2 or 3 years and see how he has developed. Maybe you will be suprised issoisso? |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 20-08-2008 23:02
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Bernhard Eisel is hardly a force to be reckoned with in sprints
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| issoisso |
Posted on 20-08-2008 23:04
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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Goldberger wrote:
I can't believe you are so sure issoisso that Edvald never will become a good stage racer , Let me come with a prediction, it's impossible to predict how good Edvald will become
agreed
Goldberger wrote:
and what kind of rider he will be.
partly agreed. he can have several development routes, but not climber. he's too heavy.
Goldberger wrote:
Stapleton and Holm said that he has so much potential in every terrain that he can develop into a good rider in all sorts of races.
Meaning an all-rounder...not a good climber.
Goldberger wrote:
And you say that he can be a decent sprinter and a good time trialist. Last year most of Edvalds victory`s came in sprint finishes where he beat several established sprinters like Bernhard Eisel
If Eisel is a sprinter, I'm santa claus
Eisel has never won a sprint in his career, save for that miracle in Qatar in 2006
Goldberger wrote:
, this he's had less luck in the sprints but we must also remember that Edvald has been sick many times this year(started in the Tour of California) But I think Edvald has just as much potential in sprints.
Potential in terms of a sprinter is measured in their positioning. Top speed, either they have it and can one day become top sprinters (Haedo) or don't have it and thus simply cannot become a top sprinter. ever.
Goldberger wrote:
It's no use saying he will never be a GC contender, simply because YOU don't know, youre making predictions based on mountain stages in Edvalds first year in the Pro Tour give him 2 or 3 years and see how he has developed. Maybe you will be suprised issoisso?
I'm making predictions based on his performances as a young rider BEFORE he started in the ProTour riding against others of his age where he lost minutes on top of minutes
Edited by issoisso on 20-08-2008 23:07
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Goldberger |
Posted on 20-08-2008 23:07
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Domestique
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Bernhard Eisel is hardly a force to be reckoned with in sprints
OMG!!!!!!!!!! Bernhard Eisel is a good sprinter, He does not win much but before he was lead-out man for Cavendish and Ciolek he was top 10 on many sprint stages in Tour De France, i'm not saying he's a super good sprinter but definantly good. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 20-08-2008 23:08
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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Goldberger wrote:
SportingNonsense wrote:
Bernhard Eisel is hardly a force to be reckoned with in sprints
OMG!!!!!!!!!! Bernhard Eisel is a good sprinter , He does not win much but before he was lead-out man for Cavendish and Ciolek he was top 10 on many sprint stages in Tour De France, i'm not saying he's a super good sprinter but definantly good.
I have to disagree very strongly. He's a pretty good classics rider.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| helGn |
Posted on 20-08-2008 23:19
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Domestique
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eisel atleast was attended to be a sprinter in FdJ wasnt he? i remember them dragging his ass up in TdF and failing every time |
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| Goldberger |
Posted on 20-08-2008 23:21
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Domestique
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issoisso wrote:
partly agreed. he can have several development routes, but not climber. he's too heavy.
I agree Edvald is too heavy now, BUT he can lose weight in order to become better in the mountains, he may lose his sprinting skills and a bit of his tt skills but it's possible to lose weight. Remember Lance Armstrong was 10 kg heavier before he got cancer( an unusual example of course i hope this won't happen to Edvald) And we saw that he became a different rider in the mountains, he was an Edvald type rider before 1998. Also Stijn Devolder is another rider who has became lighter and better in the mountains( with the exeption of this years tour) And I read a interview a while back that Bjarne Riis thought he could make Cancellara win the TDF with better training and if he shed quite a few kilos. I myself doubt this but Cancellara has definantly improved in the hills and the mountains this season.
Im just saying it's possible to lose weight and thus make your climbing abilites better, combined with training in the mountains of course.
But maybe this is too much of a sacrifice for Edvald, he's a type of rider who likes to win and participate in many races per season and you have to be really patient and devoted if you want to become a grand tour rider. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 20-08-2008 23:32
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Tour de France Champion
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Goldberger wrote:
I agree Edvald is too heavy now, BUT he can lose weight in order to become better in the mountains, he may lose his sprinting skills and a bit of his tt skills but it's possible to lose weight. Remember Lance Armstrong was 10 kg heavier before he got cancer( an unusual example of course i hope this won't happen to Edvald ) And we saw that he became a different rider in the mountains, he was an Edvald type rider before 1998. Also Stijn Devolder is another rider who has became lighter and better in the mountains( with the exeption of this years tour ) And I read a interview a while back that Bjarne Riis thought he could make Cancellara win the TDF with better training and if he shed quite a few kilos. I myself doubt this but Cancellara has definantly improved in the hills and the mountains this season.
Im just saying it's possible to lose weight and thus make your climbing abilites better, combined with training in the mountains of course.
But maybe this is too much of a sacrifice for Edvald, he's a type of rider who likes to win and participate in many races per season and you have to be really patient and devoted if you want to become a grand tour rider.
1. Yes, climbing can be vastly improved. Just not when you're already that lean and that heavy. there's not much to lose.
2. The 10kg is a myth that somehow is widespread. he lost 3kg.
3. He was not an Edvald type rider. Edvald is nut a puncheur who can win Liége or the Flèche Wallone.
4. Devolder's climbing has never been that good. Not this year, not last year, not any year
5. Riis said the same about Zabriskie. didn't quite work...
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ruben |
Posted on 21-08-2008 00:19
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Grand Tour Champion
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If Boasson Hagen will turn into a GC contender or someone who can really do well on long climbs, I will eat my shorts.
I follow youth cycling very closely, and also followed Hagens career from the moment he started doing things in international youth cycling. And to think Hagen could do something in GC's based on what I saw of him in the youth categories is in well, blindly optimistic.
He has shown great potential in time trials and hard races (hilly, hard conditions, etc). But in mountain stages, he has never shown anything close to reveal a great future there. In the Tour l'Avenir where he won 3 stages, he failed very hard in the GC by losing minutes in the hardest mountain stages to the real GC contenders of his age.
There is really the slightest chance Hagen will develop into a GC rider. Just as many chance as Gesink will turn into a paris roubaix winner. |
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 21-08-2008 00:43
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Rahsaan Bahati won the National Criterium Championship for Rock Racing. Its kinda a big deal for the US.
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