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Stuttgart 2007 - World Championships
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| Dan_Grr |
Posted on 01-10-2007 21:19
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You only explained Ullrich, and that's not even a good explanation. There were several other Armstrong opponents, who were all caught with doping. |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 01-10-2007 21:20
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Team Manager
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ABridgeTooFar wrote:
EDIT: from all the podium-getters in Tours Armstrong won, Klöden and Beloki were never found guilty. just them.
Kloden is often suspected to have though, and wasnt Beloki implicated in OP?
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 01-10-2007 21:27
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Tour de France Champion
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issoisso wrote:
SportingNonsense wrote:
I didnt know Benoît Joachim had been caught for doping? Or did you only include him cause he rides for Astana?
same from me. when'd he test positive? same for Padrnos.
I don't speak French, but Padrnos is listed as a doped guy here: https://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/course...%20CHANNEL
Joakim had a positive test in 2000. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 01-10-2007 21:30
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Tour de France Champion
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Dan_Grr wrote:
You only explained Ullrich, and that's not even a good explanation. There were several other Armstrong opponents, who were all caught with doping.
some of the blood bags from Puerto matched Ullrich's DNA. that's a fact.
also, german ministry announced weeks ago that they have the bank transcripts proving Ullrich made several payments of 25000 euros to Fuentes' account. Ullrich's lawyers who were so quick to deny every single thing previously, including denying that the blood was his, have responded to this with "no comment"
SportingNonsense wrote:
ABridgeTooFar wrote:
EDIT: from all the podium-getters in Tours Armstrong won, Klöden and Beloki were never found guilty. just them.
Kloden is often suspected to have though, and wasnt Beloki implicated in OP?
I'm not sure Beloki was. he may, he may not. I'm really not sure.
Klöden, always said he'd stay at T-Mobile and would never leave and would be proud to be captain....then suddenly they announced new management and an anti-doping program. Klöden and his good friend Kessler immediatelly quit.
Klöden said it was "because they refused to renew Gonchar and Guerini's contracts which he demanded. nothing else"
those contracts WERE renewed.
so I'd say he's quite a bit suspicious. not to mention he was a part of the "old" T-Mobile system...
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| issoisso |
Posted on 02-10-2007 14:27
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Tour de France Champion
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After Schumacher's irregular blood values showed up in pre-rece tests, he justified it saying it was due to diarrhoea.
After several tests were run, it was verified this is indeed the case.
Edited by issoisso on 02-10-2007 14:27
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Dan_Grr |
Posted on 02-10-2007 14:56
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Domestique
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Must have been caused by anxiety and nervousism for the race, that itself led to congested shit. To end with a quote:
"Quando vou às putas fico com vontade de cagar"
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| ruben |
Posted on 02-10-2007 15:31
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Grand Tour Champion
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Ullrich even said in his own book (released in 2004), that in big tours, he got injections. But he said injections of vitamines and such, but that's bullshit ofcourse lol. |
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| ABridgeTooFar |
Posted on 02-10-2007 15:32
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Dan_Grr wrote:
You only explained Ullrich, and that's not even a good explanation. There were several other Armstrong opponents, who were all caught with doping.
I wasn't doing any explaining. I was merely addressing a comment about Ullrich from another post. It is not the "accussed" duty to explain theirself. It is the job of the "accuser" to find evidence of guilt.
Was Zulle, Rumsas, and Escartin dopers? I was not sure. |
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| Panaflex |
Posted on 02-10-2007 15:47
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Rumsas https://www.usatoday.com/sports/cyclin...msas_x.htm
Zülle was part of 1998 Festina - so...don't get me started.
EscartÃn used to ride for Kelme...
Edited by Panaflex on 02-10-2007 15:48
Pain is temporary. Quitting lasts forever.Lance
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 20:45
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 02-10-2007 15:51
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Tour de France Champion
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Name one rider from the 90's who wasn't doped. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 02-10-2007 15:56
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And Rumsas stepmother was a friggin' dopehead. 
About Armstrong : training with Michele Ferrari, an EPO specialist (THE EPO specialist ?), is hardly a coincidence.
If you want me to go in a more scientifical aspect of things, I could do it. He managed to reach about 465 Watts in some mountains (equivalent Watts : not he real value no one could exploit for comparison purposes). Riis is the most powerful ever, reaching 485. Then comes Ullrich 1997. And then Armstrong, Basso, Vinokourov, Valverde, Kashechkin, Heras, Piepoli, etc. All of them at around 460-465 Watts.
I could give names of riders below them and above the commonly admitted limit for non-doped riders.
It doesn't take a statistician to understand that Armstrong was very abnormal, and that all those abnormal people have been caught positive (or admitted using dope) one day or another.
And arguments like "he didn't feel the pain" or "God gave him 15% more power than the best you could expect from the best human being perfectly trained for cycling" are not serious... |
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| Panaflex |
Posted on 02-10-2007 15:58
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Lance Armstrong wasn't doped. Period.
I mean he faught cancer and he is a true warrior. Do you honestly believe anyone would risk his life after passing through such horrible experiences? Impossible.
The fact that most of his competitors were doped is nothing but another evidence of his unparalleled talent and focus. God bless you!
Pain is temporary. Quitting lasts forever.Lance
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 02-10-2007 15:58
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CrueTrue wrote:
Name one rider from the 90's who wasn't doped. Christophe Bassons, Gilles Delion, Charly Mottet, David Moncoutié... I'm even tempted to think LeMond was clean.
According to Virenque, neo-pros weren't included in team doping programs during their first two years as pros (which doesn't mean they didn't dope on their own), so there's a probability to find some more of them. Not among the bigger names though. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 02-10-2007 16:05
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Panaflex wrote:
Lance Armstrong wasn't doped. Period.
I mean he faught cancer and he is a true warrior. Do you honestly believe anyone would risk his life after passing through such horrible experiences? Impossible.
The fact that most of his competitors were doped is nothing but another evidence of his unparalleled talent and focus. God bless you! Man, don't tell me you seriously mean that. 
He fought cancer and is a warrior, right ? So what ? His opponents were pussies who let him go as soon as they felt pain in their legs ?
Yes, I honestly do believe he's after money and fame enough to have started again after his cancer what he was already doing before it, and what most riders around him were doing. Unless you take too much of it, dope doesn't harm your health on the short term but on the long term.
He was simply more talented than the others ? Among the top 10 of his generation maybe, and I'm not even sure about it since EPO can turn a donkey into a racing horse. Understand that the best human being that could be produced and who would be perfectly trained for cycling and hanging on as hard as he could would be absolutely unable to beat a power limit of 410W (relative Watts once again) without using any dope. There comes Lance Armstrong, who was obviously a human being, and who is the only man on earth able to break it, not only by 1%, but by 15 %, without dope ?
Some common sense helps not to see miracles where things are perfectly explainable... |
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| Panaflex |
Posted on 02-10-2007 16:12
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Neo-Pro
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Sorry, I was being sarcastic.
Pain is temporary. Quitting lasts forever.Lance
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 02-10-2007 16:13
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Tour de France Champion
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Don't worry, he was joking 
Edit: I was too slow again.
Edited by CrueTrue on 02-10-2007 16:13
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| ruben |
Posted on 02-10-2007 16:26
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Grand Tour Champion
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Aquarius wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
Name one rider from the 90's who wasn't doped. Christophe Bassons, Gilles Delion, Charly Mottet, David Moncoutié... I'm even tempted to think LeMond was clean.
According to Virenque, neo-pros weren't included in team doping programs during their first two years as pros (which doesn't mean they didn't dope on their own), so there's a probability to find some more of them. Not among the bigger names though. Ah yes, only some French guys and 1 american with a French name were clean, ofcourse
Sorry, have to laugh there. There are certainly a lot of clean foreigners too, even in the 90-ties  |
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| Panaflex |
Posted on 02-10-2007 16:30
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Neo-Pro
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Though I tend to agree with Aquarius. Judging by the results in the last 10 years, most French cyclists aren't doping.
Pain is temporary. Quitting lasts forever.Lance
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 02-10-2007 16:33
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Ruben wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
Name one rider from the 90's who wasn't doped. Christophe Bassons, Gilles Delion, Charly Mottet, David Moncoutié... I'm even tempted to think LeMond was clean.
According to Virenque, neo-pros weren't included in team doping programs during their first two years as pros (which doesn't mean they didn't dope on their own), so there's a probability to find some more of them. Not among the bigger names though. Ah yes, only some French guys and 1 american with a French name were clean, ofcourse
Sorry, have to laugh there. There are certainly a lot of clean foreigners too, even in the 90-ties I'm absolutely not saying they were the only ones. I'm giving those names because they are the ones I know. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 02-10-2007 16:34
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Panaflex wrote:
Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I'm sorry, I'm not used to every one here yet, so I'm never sure whether it's sarcasm or not. |
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