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Stuttgart 2007 - World Championships
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| ABridgeTooFar |
Posted on 01-10-2007 18:15
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issoisso wrote:
Guido are you being sarcastic? Knowing your previous posts, I think you are...
otherwise, you'll be happy to know that there is in fact evidence against Armstrong. the most famous of which is perhaps his positive EPO test from the 1999 Tour.
So Armstrong tested positive during the 1999 Tour but they did not ban him or take away the yellow jersey?!? If that is so true, then who is the bigger dope: Armstrong or the organizers of the race.
Armstrong has so many haters out there that if someone has something on him, he would have been busted many times before now.
Edited by ABridgeTooFar on 01-10-2007 18:19
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| odenkos |
Posted on 01-10-2007 18:26
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ABridgeTooFar wrote:
odenkos wrote:
I don't want evidence from Armstrong. I don't even want evidence from Pantani. I want evidence that he DIDN'T dope  .
How does one prove that he did not do something?
No idea. 
ExManager of the Slovak team Sme Cycling
 
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| odenkos |
Posted on 01-10-2007 18:27
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Ruben wrote:
hahahahahahahah, Schumacher, oh this is just great. That'll learn the Germans
VAI BETTINI B)
What does VAI mean???
ExManager of the Slovak team Sme Cycling
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| Dan_Grr |
Posted on 01-10-2007 18:30
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It's the portuguese word for "Go". |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 01-10-2007 19:14
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Tour de France Champion
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ABridgeTooFar wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Guido are you being sarcastic? Knowing your previous posts, I think you are...
otherwise, you'll be happy to know that there is in fact evidence against Armstrong. the most famous of which is perhaps his positive EPO test from the 1999 Tour.
So Armstrong tested positive during the 1999 Tour but they did not ban him or take away the yellow jersey?!? If that is so true, then who is the bigger dope: Armstrong or the organizers of the race.
Armstrong has so many haters out there that if someone has something on him, he would have been busted many times before now.
There's so much circumstantial evidence - believe me. But as I've said in the many Armstrong-discussions we have had before, Armstrong was really intelligent. He knew exactly what he could take without being caught. For example, a test of one his samples from 1999 shows that he used EPO which wasn't detectable back then. When it became detectable it's very likely that he has started using some new undectable stuff (for example, blood doping).
There's so much stuff -- so, so much. Try reading Welsh's books.
And yes, it's publically known that Armstrong had a positive test in 1999. |
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| ABridgeTooFar |
Posted on 01-10-2007 19:21
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I don't know. I don't want to start another Armstrong related thread. I am new here and I am sure that you guys have discussed this many times before. I just find it hard to believe that Armstrong, a man who never went to college, is smarter than the scientists/investigators that are out there.
Why would he attempt to risk his life with doping after he came so close to death with cancer? (hypothetical question)
Does anyway have a link to a past article about these alleged positive tests? - not a challenge to your claim, just looking to educate myself |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 01-10-2007 19:30
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Tour de France Champion
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ABridgeTooFar wrote:
I don't know. I don't want to start another Armstrong related thread. I am new here and I am sure that you guys have discussed this many times before. I just find it hard to believe that Armstrong, a man who never went to college, is smarter than the scientists/investigators that are out there.
Why would he attempt to risk his life with doping after he came so close to death with cancer? (hypothetical question)
Does anyway have a link to a past article about these alleged positive tests? - not a challenge to your claim, just looking to educate myself
"Throughout his career only one test showed indications of the presence of doping products: in 1999, a urine sample showed traces of corticosteroids, but the amount was not in the positive test range. He later produced a medical certificate showing he used an approved cream for saddle sores which contained the substance."
From a Pro-Armstrong Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Ar..._Armstrong |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 20:36
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| ABridgeTooFar |
Posted on 01-10-2007 20:02
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Okay, seems harmless enough for me. It was below the limits to be considered doping and it was an approved cream. To me that does not qualify as doping.
To me the only thing suspicious about Armstrong is how many former teammates have been busted for doping albeit after they left the USPS/Discovery team. So were they corrupt before they left or did they become corrupted when they left for the dark side. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 01-10-2007 20:23
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Well, that was what the Wikipedia-guy said. This is what Aquarius says - I'd say they are equally creditable:
There's even better : a valid positive case for corticoids in 1999, without a justificative paper. The medical authorisation was provided by USP doctor after the A sample appeared to be positive. It goes without saying that it has to be provided before you even give your urine.
The date on the certificate was earlier to the test date, but the rumour is that it wasn't really the date when the paper was made. Anyway, it's illegal, thus the positive test should have remained positive.
UCI decided to forgive Armstrong, so his positive test was cancelled. Talking of corrupted people...
Did you read the books by Welsh? Did you read the MSN Messenger Conversation between his two team mates? Oh, and did you notice that all his main rivals have been taken for doping? How would a non-doped guy be able to beat doped guys with such a huge margin without being doped himself? Roberto Heras, Floyd Landis, Tyler Hamilton, Benoit Joakim, Frankie Andreu, Pavel Padrnos and Manuel Beltran are all former US Postal TdF-riders who have been caught for doping. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 01-10-2007 20:27
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Panaflex wrote:
Panaflex wrote:
issoisso wrote:
think of it like this: admit that Bettini is doped as everything seems to indicate.....even that way, he only NARROWLY beat guys who are supposedly clean. what does that tell you about his abilities?
Think of it like this: I'm German but I have serious doubts about Schumacher being a clean cyclist.
you misunderstand. I never said he isn't doped. I said I was very interested in your views as to why he is doped. and I still am, unless there's nothing else besides what was discussed above
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| issoisso |
Posted on 01-10-2007 20:29
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Tour de France Champion
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ABridgeTooFar wrote:
So Armstrong tested positive during the 1999 Tour
I didn't say that. it was not during the Tour.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Dan_Grr |
Posted on 01-10-2007 20:33
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Being in college as nothing to do with being smart. Armstrong was smart. All his rivals were using dope and were later or recently caught, like Vinokourov, Ullrich, Heras, Basso, etc. It's very hard not to see the evidence against which all his competition were doping like junkies and he was lefting thembehind. Like he used to say, a good diet and hours of training does that. Right.
What do you think Ulltich did for preparation for the Tour de France, eat pistacchios and drink coca cola? They all prepared with seriousness, motivation and sacrifice. Dope was another one of the elements I believe all of them had in common.
His best alibi is really what he said all along "I'm the most tested athlete on the planet", and what people make of it.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 01-10-2007 20:39
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Dan_Grr wrote:
What do you think Ulltich did for preparation for the Tour de France, eat pistacchios and drink coca cola?
he sure looked as if he did...
Dan_Grr wrote:
His best alibi is really what he said all along "I'm the most tested athlete on the planet", and what people make of it.
the thing most see is "this guy battled cancer. he gives so much to charity. he's a hero. he can't be doped."
and people don't want heroes to have any flaws. look at Kelme. they've pretty much all been caught....except Valverde and Plaza...the big names. despite all the circumstancial evidence against Valverde and the relatively large evidence against Plaza. people will accept readily that all others were doped. but not those two...they're the heroes...
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ABridgeTooFar |
Posted on 01-10-2007 21:00
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Domestique
Posts: 463
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CrueTrue wrote:
Well, that was what the Wikipedia-guy said. This is what Aquarius says - I'd say they are equally creditable:
There's even better : a valid positive case for corticoids in 1999, without a justificative paper. The medical authorisation was provided by USP doctor after the A sample appeared to be positive. It goes without saying that it has to be provided before you even give your urine.
The date on the certificate was earlier to the test date, but the rumour is that it wasn't really the date when the paper was made. Anyway, it's illegal, thus the positive test should have remained positive.
UCI decided to forgive Armstrong, so his positive test was cancelled. Talking of corrupted people...
Did you read the books by Welsh? Did you read the MSN Messenger Conversation between his two team mates? Oh, and did you notice that all his main rivals have been taken for doping? How would a non-doped guy be able to beat doped guys with such a huge margin without being doped himself? Roberto Heras, Floyd Landis, Tyler Hamilton, Benoit Joakim, Frankie Andreu, Pavel Padrnos and Manuel Beltran are all former US Postal TdF-riders who have been caught for doping.
All of it is heresay and Welsh is not the most credible author. Where is the proof/evidence that will hold up in a court of law? Not ALL of his main rivals have been dopers. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 01-10-2007 21:03
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ABridgeTooFar wrote:
All of it is heresay
not all of it
ABridgeTooFar wrote:
and Welsh is not the most credible author.
he is very far from it in fact.
ABridgeTooFar wrote:
Not ALL of his main rivals have been dopers.
name one that hasn't
EDIT: from all the podium-getters in Tours Armstrong won, Klöden and Beloki were never found guilty. just them.
Edited by issoisso on 01-10-2007 21:05
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 01-10-2007 21:03
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I didnt know Benoît Joachim had been caught for doping? Or did you only include him cause he rides for Astana?
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| ABridgeTooFar |
Posted on 01-10-2007 21:06
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Domestique
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Dan_Grr wrote:
Being in college as nothing to do with being smart. Armstrong was smart. All his rivals were using dope and were later or recently caught, like Vinokourov, Ullrich, Heras, Basso, etc. It's very hard not to see the evidence against which all his competition were doping like junkies and he was lefting thembehind. Like he used to say, a good diet and hours of training does that. Right.
What do you think Ulltich did for preparation for the Tour de France, eat pistacchios and drink coca cola? They all prepared with seriousness, motivation and sacrifice. Dope was another one of the elements I believe all of them had in common.
His best alibi is really what he said all along "I'm the most tested athlete on the planet", and what people make of it.
What evidence is there that you speak of that is not hearsay or circumstancial? Doping does not make you a superstar, it only makes you preform better than you are humanly capable of. Armstrong was a champion before he won the Tours, you may remember. He outworked, outtrained and he had a better team organization for the Tour. Plus he only trained for one race out of the year. Ullrich did show up for some of the tours in less than perfect shape. Plus he crashed before the one tour started and he crashed during a TT in another. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 01-10-2007 21:06
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Tour de France Champion
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SportingNonsense wrote:
I didnt know Benoît Joachim had been caught for doping? Or did you only include him cause he rides for Astana?
same from me. when'd he test positive? same for Padrnos.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ABridgeTooFar |
Posted on 01-10-2007 21:07
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Domestique
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issoisso wrote:
ABridgeTooFar wrote:
All of it is heresay
not all of it
ABridgeTooFar wrote:
and Welsh is not the most credible author.
he is very far from it in fact.
ABridgeTooFar wrote:
Not ALL of his main rivals have been dopers.
name one that hasn't
EDIT: from all the podium-getters in Tours Armstrong won, Klöden and Beloki were never found guilty. just them.
Those were the two I was thinking of.
Edited by ABridgeTooFar on 01-10-2007 21:08
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| issoisso |
Posted on 01-10-2007 21:11
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Tour de France Champion
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Beloki was always considered a prime suspect. Klöden.....the jury is out.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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