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Tour de France 11 Stage 18: Pinerolo > Galibier Serre Chavalier 200km
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| Martin_TB |
Posted on 21-07-2011 17:51
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doddy13 wrote:
titleist82 wrote:
tomorrow night rojas will be in green with 285 vs Cav 280 (or out of the race)
And then Cavendish will take it back in Paris.
A scenario I can deal with.
Contrary to popular belief, I think it will be easier for Cav to make time tomorrow than it was today.
Yes, the initial climb up the Galibier is hard, BUT there is a 50K descent before the start of Alpe D'huez and I think that he will be able to make up a lot of time. |
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| Roman |
Posted on 21-07-2011 17:51
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Guido Mukk wrote:
Today?
You have been away a decade?
So let me you say, where do you see Cadel attacking in a GT before this TdF in mountains?
Edited by Roman on 21-07-2011 17:56
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 21-07-2011 17:52
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Martin_TB wrote:
doddy13 wrote:
titleist82 wrote:
tomorrow night rojas will be in green with 285 vs Cav 280 (or out of the race)
And then Cavendish will take it back in Paris.
A scenario I can deal with.
Contrary to popular belief, I think it will be easier for Cav to make time tomorrow than it was today.
Yes, the initial climb up the Galibier is hard, BUT there is a 50K descent before the start of Alpe D'huez and I think that he will be able to make up a lot of time.
Depends on how hard the racing is going I feel.
But I can see the grupetto making the time limit tomorrow, it does seem to be a slightly easier stage, but shorter.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 21-07-2011 17:53
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doddy13 wrote:
cactus-jack wrote:
Martin_TB wrote:
cactus-jack wrote:
The time limit is the most pointless rule in the TdF... so what if alot of riders finishes outside it, then they didn't do well enough!
Two question:
1. What happens if a rider finished outside the limit, but still ahead of the bus and the bus is allowed back in? Does the lonely rider get to start to?
I assume that everyone who finished in front of the bus is also allowed in, but with the same penalty. However, with race radio there is no reason for someone to finish in the wilderness between the grupetto and the back of the peleton.
2. What if there's someone who can't even keep up with the bus and say 7-8 riders finishes just behind the bus? Would they be eliminated? If they would be then that's an amazing show of UNfareness. That's like saying "none of you were good enough, but because they were 50 riders and you only 8 then you won't get to start.
The bus drivers always try to get the bus to the finish just inside the time, using the least amount of energy necessary to get it there. Riding in the bus is like the peleton, you are protected from the wind and you take turns on the front, so you use a lot less energy than being on your own.
If you are so tired you can't even get into the bus, then it won't wait and you get kicked out....
Either enforce the rule or get rid of it because this way is just pointless. It shouldn't matter how many riders finishes outside the limit, it is nothing more then just a kick in the gonads to those who cam outside the limit on a previous stage.
The rule only applies IF there are more than 20% of the peleton in the bus and IF they jury allows it.
If the jury thinks that the Bus made no effort to get in on time, they can let all of them go home.
In this case over 50% of the peleton was in the bus, and it was highly unlikely they would be kicked out.
i still think it's wrong to let them back in no matter how many riders finishes outside the limit. The rule is there and if this happens then it happens. If that means a peloton with 80 riders +/- then so be it.
But the rule you want to be invoked has the exception included in the same rule. So basically, Cavendish is right to be allowed to continue the race.
Don't you understand? It's the exception I'm against! The rule allowes for foul play where a rider like Cav who is very likely to finish outside the limit tomorrow too can try to convince other teams to have as many riders as possible finish in the bus. It can also have a very big impact on who wins the green jersey.
To all Cav-supporters, take a deep breath and count to 10, I only ment him as an example. |
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 21-07-2011 17:53
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cactus-jack wrote:
doddy13 wrote:
cactus-jack wrote:
Martin_TB wrote:
cactus-jack wrote:
The time limit is the most pointless rule in the TdF... so what if alot of riders finishes outside it, then they didn't do well enough!
Two question:
1. What happens if a rider finished outside the limit, but still ahead of the bus and the bus is allowed back in? Does the lonely rider get to start to?
I assume that everyone who finished in front of the bus is also allowed in, but with the same penalty. However, with race radio there is no reason for someone to finish in the wilderness between the grupetto and the back of the peleton.
2. What if there's someone who can't even keep up with the bus and say 7-8 riders finishes just behind the bus? Would they be eliminated? If they would be then that's an amazing show of UNfareness. That's like saying "none of you were good enough, but because they were 50 riders and you only 8 then you won't get to start.
The bus drivers always try to get the bus to the finish just inside the time, using the least amount of energy necessary to get it there. Riding in the bus is like the peleton, you are protected from the wind and you take turns on the front, so you use a lot less energy than being on your own.
If you are so tired you can't even get into the bus, then it won't wait and you get kicked out....
Either enforce the rule or get rid of it because this way is just pointless. It shouldn't matter how many riders finishes outside the limit, it is nothing more then just a kick in the gonads to those who cam outside the limit on a previous stage.
The rule only applies IF there are more than 20% of the peleton in the bus and IF they jury allows it.
If the jury thinks that the Bus made no effort to get in on time, they can let all of them go home.
In this case over 50% of the peleton was in the bus, and it was highly unlikely they would be kicked out.
i still think it's wrong to let them back in no matter how many riders finishes outside the limit. The rule is there and if this happens then it happens. If that means a peloton with 80 riders +/- then so be it.
But the rule you want to be invoked has the exception included in the same rule. So basically, Cavendish is right to be allowed to continue the race.
Don't you understand? It's the exception I'm against! The rule allowes for foul play where a rider like Cav who is very likely to finish outside the limit tomorrow too can try to convince other teams to have as many riders as possible finish in the bus. It can also have a very big impact on who wins the green jersey.
To all Cav-supporters, take a deep breath and count to 10, I only ment him as an example.
Yes, but the exception is in the rule book, and so it's within the ASO's rights to invoke it.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| AndySchleck |
Posted on 21-07-2011 17:54
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Can't the sprinter teams just agree to let many riders fall down in the bus so they are more than 20%?
Edit: Thats what you just said...
Edited by AndySchleck on 21-07-2011 17:54
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 02:01
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| gilles23 |
Posted on 21-07-2011 17:58
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is there a rule you cant come after the time limit two days in a row? |
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 21-07-2011 17:59
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gilles23 wrote:
is there a rule you cant come after the time limit two days in a row?
no.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 21-07-2011 17:59
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gilles23 wrote:
is there a rule you cant come after the time limit two days in a row?
No, but see my post in tomorrows stage topic, there is more leeway tomorrow for those struggling, its less likely for people to be outside the time limit
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| Zanci93 |
Posted on 21-07-2011 18:02
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I don't think it would be fair if tomorrow cavendish isn't in the time limit and he again only loses 20 points. Two times out of the time limit and I would decide to drop him out of the Tour. Cavendish simply is a horrible climber. And when you want to win a point classement at the tour you should be able to finish within the time limit. Thats my opinion |
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 21-07-2011 18:03
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Zanci93 wrote:
I don't think it would be fair if tomorrow cavendish isn't in the time limit and he again only loses 20 points. Two times out of the time limit and I would decide to drop him out of the Tour. Cavendish simply is a horrible climber. And when you want to win a point classement at the tour you should be able to finish within the time limit. Thats my opinion
Why single out Cavendish and not that 80+ riders who also finished outside the time limit?
Rules are rules, they have been enforced. Deal with it.
Edited by doddy13 on 21-07-2011 18:03
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 21-07-2011 18:05
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Zanci93 wrote:
I don't think it would be fair if tomorrow cavendish isn't in the time limit and he again only loses 20 points. Two times out of the time limit and I would decide to drop him out of the Tour. Cavendish simply is a horrible climber. And when you want to win a point classement at the tour you should be able to finish within the time limit. Thats my opinion
Cavendish climbed the same as 87 others, and was only 2 minutes outside the time limit. Really a 'horrible climber'
Oh, and what Doddy said aswell 
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| kumazan |
Posted on 21-07-2011 18:06
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Zanci93 wrote:
I don't think it would be fair if tomorrow cavendish isn't in the time limit and he again only loses 20 points. Two times out of the time limit and I would decide to drop him out of the Tour. Cavendish simply is a horrible climber. And when you want to win a point classement at the tour you should be able to finish within the time limit. Thats my opinion
Kenny van Hummel is a horrible climber. Cavendish is just a sprinter without special climbing skills (as opposed to Rojas, for instance).
Edit: I'd also appreciate if people stop talking nonsense about the time limit issue. I'm finding myself defending Cavendish, and this is something I don't like at all. 
Edited by kumazan on 21-07-2011 18:07
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| Martin_TB |
Posted on 21-07-2011 18:07
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AndySchleck wrote:
Can't the sprinter teams just agree to let many riders fall down in the bus so they are more than 20%?
Edit: Thats what you just said...
well, of course they could, but I don't think today is a normal day.
The thing is that there were so many in the bus that many teams would be decimated for tomorrow and the weekend if they kicked them all out. It's not just Cav, but some other riders who frankly deserve the chance to ride the Champs Elysée and finish this tour
ie: Thor Hushovd, Juan Antonio Flecha (mown down by a tour car remember), Jeremy Roy and the rest of FDJ who have ridden brilliantly to get into every break, Philippe Gilbert, Nikki Sorenson (towed along by a tour moto), Eddy B-H who is shattered after being in 2 successive breaks.
The thing is, if there was only Cav, Eisel, Pettachi, Tyler Farrar and a few others outside time they would all be going home. This is an exceptional tour and the Jury have made their mind up to let them continue.
Edited by Martin_TB on 21-07-2011 18:08
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| Zanci93 |
Posted on 21-07-2011 18:08
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doddy13 wrote:
Zanci93 wrote:
I don't think it would be fair if tomorrow cavendish isn't in the time limit and he again only loses 20 points. Two times out of the time limit and I would decide to drop him out of the Tour. Cavendish simply is a horrible climber. And when you want to win a point classement at the tour you should be able to finish within the time limit. Thats my opinion
Why single out Cavendish and not that 80+ riders who also finished outside the time limit?
Rules are rules, they have been enforced. Deal with it.
Oh you misunderstood me. I want to say when Cavendish is out of time limit again tomorrow I would decide to drop him out. And this means all the riders who where out of time limit more than once in the tour. |
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| ruben |
Posted on 21-07-2011 18:15
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Just remember kids. Everyday a Schleck wins an angel dies. |
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| Roman |
Posted on 21-07-2011 18:18
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ruben wrote:
Just remember kids. Everyday a Schleck wins an angel dies.
Say me Ruben, is still Frank Schleck no threat in GC?
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| issoisso |
Posted on 21-07-2011 18:19
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Roman wrote:
ruben wrote:
Just remember kids. Everyday a Schleck wins an angel dies.
Say me Ruben, is still Frank Schleck no threat in GC?
After today he's barely a threat. He would be if he gained time which he didn't. He now has one stage to gain about 3 minutes. Not happening.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Zanci93 |
Posted on 21-07-2011 18:22
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ruben wrote:
Just remember kids. Everyday a Schleck wins an angel dies.
Oh Ruben for every comment you write thousands of angels die ! 
I didn't expect a comment from you after this f*****g great performance from both Schlecks. |
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 21-07-2011 18:23
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Zanci93 wrote:
doddy13 wrote:
Zanci93 wrote:
I don't think it would be fair if tomorrow cavendish isn't in the time limit and he again only loses 20 points. Two times out of the time limit and I would decide to drop him out of the Tour. Cavendish simply is a horrible climber. And when you want to win a point classement at the tour you should be able to finish within the time limit. Thats my opinion
Why single out Cavendish and not that 80+ riders who also finished outside the time limit?
Rules are rules, they have been enforced. Deal with it.
Oh you misunderstood me. I want to say when Cavendish is out of time limit again tomorrow I would decide to drop him out. And this means all the riders who where out of time limit more than once in the tour.
No, no. I think I understood you perfectly.
The response stands
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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