Ashton89 wrote:
Some argue that you can't have full democracy, as we know it in the western world, in a islamic country.. Why?? Because if you wanna have full democracy in a country you can't mix up religion and politics .. These things should be devided..
But in Islam there are things you (the politicians) can't change due to the Koran .. This is the reason why you'll never be able to have a "western" democracy in an Islamic country..
I think that is a wrong assessment. People said this about Japan too, they were at least as bad as Islamofascists today. Look at what they have become today, a fully functional and working, free and open democracy.
Well if you want to have a western democracy in these countries they have to stop living by the "book" (The Koran) .. The Koran can't make decissions or it shouldn't be allowed to do so .. But as it is now The Koran decides EVERYTHING in these countries (more or less)..
They only way they'll get a fully funtional democracy is if they give up the Koran .. Well sure it's allright to have a religion and it's alright to read and so on.. But there's a huge difference in controlling a country by a book and believing in a religion..
Opression of women in Wahhabism comes from ancient tribal traditions on the Arabian peninsula and has nothing to do with Islam, but they mixed it up. I would recommend you to look at what Irshad Manji has written in books and articles. She is a real modern muslim pushing for muslim reform. I think she has a nice documentary called 'Faith without Fear' too.
The dominant force in Islam today, Wahhabism, springs from Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab. It advocates violence towards non-muslims and a violent expansion of Islam. In Wahhabism there can only be peace if Islam is the dominant religion, and that cannot happen without violence it advocates.
Ashton89 wrote:
Some argue that you can't have full democracy, as we know it in the western world, in a islamic country.. Why?? Because if you wanna have full democracy in a country you can't mix up religion and politics .. These things should be devided..
But in Islam there are things you (the politicians) can't change due to the Koran .. This is the reason why you'll never be able to have a "western" democracy in an Islamic country..
I think that is a wrong assessment. People said this about Japan too, they were at least as bad as Islamofascists today. Look at what they have become today, a fully functional and working, free and open democracy.
Well if you want to have a western democracy in these countries they have to stop living by the "book" (The Koran) .. The Koran can't make decissions or it shouldn't be allowed to do so .. But as it is now The Koran decides EVERYTHING in these countries (more or less)..
They only way they'll get a fully funtional democracy is if they give up the Koran .. Well sure it's allright to have a religion and it's alright to read and so on.. But there's a huge difference in controlling a country by a book and believing in a religion..
Yes they basicly need to reform Islam. This is not easy because muslim reformists face death trying to change it, just like Martin Luther. These guys live by medieval values..
Edited by kadel on 11-06-2008 00:37
that scares me very much. do you happen to be holding a banjo, so you can complete the stereotype?
hell no. Actually all around America people hate the French.
We deserved it, cowardly refusing to kick Iraqis's asses because they were hiding MDW (you eventually found them somewhere by chance ?), then picking at Lance Armstrong as a revenge because he owned us at home.
What sore losers we are, really. :cry:
I don't really care about Americans, some are nice, some are not. Actually it's the same with my compatriots, there are fools and there are good people. Same can apply to any group of people...
But, hell, you're probably right, all Americans are cool and all French are stupid. Long live stereotypes, long live stupidity.
You are a pretty good french man. I completely agree with you.
that scares me very much. do you happen to be holding a banjo, so you can complete the stereotype?
hell no. Actually all around America people hate the French.
We deserved it, cowardly refusing to kick Iraqis's asses because they were hiding MDW (you eventually found them somewhere by chance ?), then picking at Lance Armstrong as a revenge because he owned us at home.
What sore losers we are, really. :cry:
I don't really care about Americans, some are nice, some are not. Actually it's the same with my compatriots, there are fools and there are good people. Same can apply to any group of people...
But, hell, you're probably right, all Americans are cool and all French are stupid. Long live stereotypes, long live stupidity.
Actually most Americans hated the French long before the whole Iraq mess. Most americans who were against the Iraq thing STILL hate the French.
It's really not about politics... it's about the stereotype of the snotty french guy.
Trying to tie it to politics is silly. It's all about stereotypes. Most Americans see the french as the taunting french guy in Monty Python's "Search for the Holy Grail"... and we just want to walk up to him and punch him in the face.
Politically... I agree with France much more than the US. But I still equate France with snotty little pricks.
You are also right. I didn't mind them going but I hate that they are staying. Francxe did the right thing by not supporting us.
Wow the guy doesn't know he's colored himself by liberalism and writes off dissenting views as just a result of an inabillity to see the conflict as it really is.
btw if the US wanted oil, it would just do what the rest of the world does.....
buy oil from Iran.
I support Israel, you know why? It was a barren country with almost no population. The Jews built up infrastructure enabling agriculture. Now all of a sudden a flow of arabs immigrate into the area and claims it back. We are talking about an immigration of 100 000 - 200 000.
Then Israel was attacked by all it's arab neighbours who want to destroy it. Finally Sadat understood he couldn't beat Israel and wanted peace. Jordan understood it quickly. Libanon was beaten for good and there was only Syria left.
Then the Arabs in Israel starts calling themselves Palestinians again, they quietly started before WW1 to demand the area from the British. The facts are, the people calling themselves Palestinians are not Palestinians. There was a people in the area called Palestinians thousands of years ago that presumably came from Greece thousands of years ago.
The people that call themselves Palestinians today are ARABS, there is no specific palestinian culture, no palestinian historic state, no palestinian heritage. They are arabs!
Israel is the only functioning democracy in the Middle-East and our friend and ally.
but I don't want to spend my time here discussing yet another case with the French. This is about cycling.
Edited by kadel on 11-06-2008 00:58
damn me and my big mouth. I started a whole rampage. And how did it get this far off topic. This should all go into the politics thread. Someone should make a thread titled "ARGUE YOUR HEADS OFF" Where you can just blindly argue at something.
Thread moved then re-opened because it's far too much fun
kadel wrote:
So where in the world has capitalism led to dictatorships? Perhaps you're going to mention some of the dictatorships the US has supported? That was realpolitik and has nothing to do with capitalism.
So when communism does it, it's the system, but when it's capitalist countries, it has absolutely nothing to do with it?
And you've got a very naive and frankly wrong view of Islam and the world in general. Every religion in the world has extremists, it's just Islamic ones get the coverage. And your view on Israel is simply unbelievable, I believe issoisso is a better knowledge on it than I am, but in absolutely no way was it the Israeli's were fantastic way you described it as.
I'm not going to comment on everything posted here because that would take way too much time, but Kadel makes me extremly angry talking about things he either doesn't understand, or is simply afraid of, or both.
And to explain why I take this personal, one of my closest friends is from a muslim family that lives here in Sweden, and i really don't like people saying things like this about my friends.
iWaghlon wrote:
Im gonna make a mental note to start a discussion with Crommy when i get the time and then otherwise just lurk in this thread from now on.
I apologise profusely, but there are just some comments you simply cannot ignore
