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Tour de France 2007
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 05-06-2007 18:08
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Hello there, it's been a while for I last posted here. 
First of all, the Watts figures given are not "actual Watts", but "equivalent Watts". This is the only way to compare riders who have different weighs, etc. To take a simple example, a rider of 80 kg will, generally speaking, produce more Watts than a 50 kg rider, even if he takes more time to climb a mountain. Those "equivalent Watts" are the only way to compare different riders on different mountains on the same scale.
Biophysics and physilogy studies have helped to find threshold values on that scale.
One of the key threshold is 410 Watts. It makes sense as an average value for the performances of riders on the last mountain of long mountain stages in Grand Tours.
410 Watts is the more that a rider seems to be able to reach without being on dope and such things. Actually most riders who have had average powers above this in a Grand Tour have been either caught positive, either strongly linked to dope affairs.
During the final mountains of the first week in last year's Vuelta, the best powers measured were about 410-420 Watts. Nothing to complain about.
But the two last weeks were totally crazy, and there we could witness the three best climbers ever (not counting those who have been caught on dope). Vinokourov, Kashechkin and Valverde had powers between 460 and 470 Watts. This is simply insane, and very close to what Ullrich did on Arcalis 1997 (for oldies like me who were old enough to watch it live and remember it 10 years after ).
Now I am waiting for the Giro 2007 values to be published some day, I am not sure what is to be expected from it. Piepoli did 455 Watts on his first victory, we'll see if he maintained that level all through the Giro, and how high was Di Luca.
About no dope at all being at Crédit Agricole : I wouldn't advise people to be naive. I am really not the kind of guy to go around telling "they are all doped". But then again power measurements speak on themselves. Moreau has never been that strong that in 2003 on a Grand Tour. He did an average of 420 or 430 Watts (from memory), and his (dopehead) reputation speaks for him.
Kashechkin also started producing weird wattages in 2005 at the Crédit Agricole.
I don't want to assume he is doped or anything, but if he is now, given his power measurements, I doubt that he started only when he joined Astana. |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 05-06-2007 18:14
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Tour de France Champion
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When you are accuse French team so hardly...it will be disaster when you gonna talk about..spain and italian teams.. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-06-2007 18:16
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Tour de France Champion
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I understand where you're going, but my question is as such:
shouldn't the newest equipments rise that 410 figure a bit? (and no, I'm not suggesting it rising 50 watts)
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 05-06-2007 18:29
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Grand Tour Specialist
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issoisso wrote:
I understand where you're going, but my question is as such:
shouldn't the newest equipments rise that 410 figure a bit? (and no, I'm not suggesting it rising 50 watts) Not significantly, I reckon.
A better material can only give you a better output (the ratio between the power used to advance, and the power produced by the rider), but it doesn't produce power (unless it's a moped ) on its own.
@ Guido Mukk : I think the French PT teams all gave up their organised team doping after Summer 1998. Since then, some have more or less closed their eyes on their riders habits (Cofidis till 2004, obviously AG2R since 2006, and some more individual cases).
I'm not really sure of how it works in Italian and Spanish teams, but to be honest, I guess that in many cases they still have the "team doping" (every one is aware of the doping inside, doping programs are planned by the team, in most of the teams the stuff is bought by the team money, etc.) going on. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-06-2007 18:38
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Tour de France Champion
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Aquarius wrote:
issoisso wrote:
I understand where you're going, but my question is as such:
shouldn't the newest equipments rise that 410 figure a bit? (and no, I'm not suggesting it rising 50 watts) Not significantly, I reckon.
A better material can only give you a better output (the ratio between the power used to advance, and the power produced by the rider), but it doesn't produce power (unless it's a moped ) on its own.
@ Guido Mukk : I think the French PT teams all gave up their organised team doping after Summer 1998. Since then, some have more or less closed their eyes on their riders habits (Cofidis till 2004, obviously AG2R since 2006, and some more individual cases).
I'm not really sure of how it works in Italian and Spanish teams, but to be honest, I guess that in many cases they still have the "team doping" (every one is aware of the doping inside, doping programs are planned by the team, in most of the teams the stuff is bought by the team money, etc.) going on.
of course.
sorry about the brain fade. as an engineer I'm embarassed.  (being awake for 36 hours does that to you  )
I have little hope that the three you mentioned at last year's Vuelta are clean, but then again, by the numbers you provided, I'd guess most of last year's Tour contenders probably aren't either.
Edited by issoisso on 05-06-2007 18:39
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 05-06-2007 19:53
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Tour de France Champion
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If I am try placing himself in cyclist situation middle of the 90-s. I am a rider of one of the Pro team and see that everybody uses dope around me and dont get cotton up year by year all same. Heck I'll take it also.. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 05-06-2007 22:29
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Tour de France Champion
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June 2007 Unibet: Official Press Statement
'On Saturday 17th March 2007, several riders from our team had been invited by the UCI to have V.I.P access to their exclusive ‘Club Protour’ nightclub in Lucerne as compensation for the groundless discrimination we have suffered at the hands of ASO. However, upon arriving at the aforementioned nightclub, all of our riders were refused entry by door staff on account of them having the ‘wrong shoes’. We note that other teams were allowed in wearing similar if not identical footwear. Therefore, with access for Unibet now barred to both ASO and UCI events, we have no alternative other than to again take the strongest legal access possible. In the meantime, we will be advising all Unibet riders that should they be looking to gain entry to a nightspot such as ‘Club Protour’ that they instead find a venue where men in tight Lycra are positively encouraged.'
Edited by CrueTrue on 05-06-2007 22:30
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 05-06-2007 22:31
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Tour de France Champion
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And Barloworld has picked their first 6 riders: Hunter, Guidi, Cardenas, Efimkin, Soler and the British guy
And about Cavendish: "T-Mobile sporting director Allan Peiper "We have to get a score on the board and probably, at this moment in time, Mark (Cavendish) is our best chance of taking a stage win. If he went in the Tour de France he wouldn't be expected to ride the whole Tour because he's so young. We've talked about it with the management of the team and there's a very good chance that he might get a spot."
Edited by CrueTrue on 05-06-2007 22:31
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 13:02
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-06-2007 22:35
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Tour de France Champion
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Either that makes no sense....or I've been up too many hours...
yup, definitely have.
Edited by issoisso on 05-06-2007 22:56
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 05-06-2007 22:50
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Tour de France Champion
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I'm going to bed now. Exam in athletics tomorrow morning |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-06-2007 22:53
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Tour de France Champion
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exam and you're going to bed at midnight? I hope it's in the late morning 
good luck!
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Addy291 |
Posted on 06-06-2007 16:47
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Grand Tour Champion
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total confirmation that Geraint Thomas is indeed going to ride the TdF, for any doubters or just people that are interested https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/...Thomas.asp |
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| Smoothie |
Posted on 06-06-2007 16:50
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Team Leader
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Its great how hes in it but i have to say i havent seen much of him this season. |
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| Addy291 |
Posted on 06-06-2007 17:12
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Grand Tour Champion
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no me neither but he's obviously done some good |
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| Boasson Hagen Jr |
Posted on 06-06-2007 17:19
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Anybody knows if T.Dekker is in rabobanks tdf team?
Just dying to watch him ride |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 06-06-2007 17:20
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Unless he is injured then he will be |
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| Boasson Hagen Jr |
Posted on 06-06-2007 17:29
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Nice , thanks for info |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 06-06-2007 17:32
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Tour de France Champion
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Boasson Hagen Jr wrote:
Anybody knows if T.Dekker is in rabobanks tdf team?
Just dying to watch him ride
https://www.cyclin...
I like this site to see lineups..just find tour de france 2007 and you got part of list..but still something. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-06-2007 17:41
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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Boasson Hagen Jr wrote:
Anybody knows if T.Dekker is in rabobanks tdf team?
Just dying to watch him ride
last year when it was decided he wouldn't, Erik Breukink said he has a clause on his contract that says unless he agrees to it, he cannot be left out of the Tour.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Boasson Hagen Jr |
Posted on 06-06-2007 17:59
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Under 23
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ok , thanks for your answers |
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