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TOTC 2: TOTC3 starts December 1st
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 03-11-2013 19:38
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Tour de France Champion
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Further to my Draft question;
Say you pick Voeckler, do you automatically get one of the two AVG 60 Riders? And if so do you pick then, in Round 2, or in Round 9?
Same sort of thing for Sanchez and Ballan. Do you pick the one 61AVG rider then or in Round 2 or Round 9?
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| The Rider |
Posted on 03-11-2013 19:50
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Grand Tour Specialist
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@ ManxMissile - There IS a young rider competition here. 
Also there will be 9 rounds of the draft so picking 21 numbers/ team names out of a hat will happen 9 times .
-- All 9 riders MUST be different.
You are not given a rider automatically.
For this example's sake say you only need to pick three riders:
Example 1--
1) Voeckler (AVG 80)
2) Tavares (AVG 60)
3) Random rider---
In round one you pick up Voeckler as you come first in the draft.
However, you miss out on Tavares as someone chose Tavares in round one... Meaning you lose Voeckler as well as you can't have a range of 70.0000 and below.
Meaning it is a VERY risky strategy to pick a high rated popular rider as unless you are very lucky you may miss out.
For teams who end up with blank spaces after the initial draft a subsequent draft/ drafts will take place.
Edited by The Rider on 03-11-2013 19:51
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 03-11-2013 19:55
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Tour de France Champion
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That is a terrible terrible terrible method. I get the underlying idea you are using, but it just sucks and looks to actively punish people.
It is also fundamentally unfair, and i could prove so using maths if you like. (easier if you take my word for it). The only real fair way to conduct a Draft is to use a serpentine system.
Also i would auto-assign the mandated riders, for the simple fact they are mandated. Surely the risk is enough with the fact you have to have the shit rider anyway.
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| The Rider |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:04
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TheManxMissile wrote:
That is a terrible terrible terrible method. I get the underlying idea you are using, but it just sucks and looks to actively punish people.
It is also fundamentally unfair, and i could prove so using maths if you like. (easier if you take my word for it). The only real fair way to conduct a Draft is to use a serpentine system.
Also i would auto-assign the mandated riders, for the simple fact they are mandated. Surely the risk is enough with the fact you have to have the shit rider anyway.
In your opinion maybe.
But I am not prepared to wait until Easter or beyond or maybe next Christmas to start this thing when it could be started in two weeks at the very latest. 
But I take your point about the auto assign. So it is now changed so that if someone signs a Voeckler they are automatically given the 60 Average guy.
Edited by The Rider on 03-11-2013 20:05
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| The Rider |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:07
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Also the initial draft will be shortened to 8 riders, the 9th rider will be automatically assigned to make the range 70 or below if need be. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:12
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Tour de France Champion
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I think you misunderstood me slightly...
The one-list thing, i don't agree with it, but ok i understand the logic (sort of... a bit...).
The auto-assign, thank you.
The pick 1-21 each time... NO NO NO NO NO!!! Serpentine would actually be quicker for you to do. If you don't know what i mean (then study maths  ) then i'll happily explain it quickly and simply.
And now i think bout it, the one list thing is also terrible. I have a good understanding of how people think when taking part in a draft (UCPCL) and one-list for 9 rounds is not great.
Round 1 is pick your leader. R2 second leader or key helper. R3 someone to score points on the opposite terrain to R1. R4-9 pretty much helpers or R1 (R2) and R3.
One list of 9 riders doesn't work. You (a manager) wants to make sure they get the best possible team, obviously. So you put down lots of possible leaders in case you preferences are selected ahead of you. But now you are out of elligible riders and can't take part?
Or am i totally misunderstanding the concept? If so please clarify 
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:17
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World Champion
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Please don't use autoassign, it will take away all strategy. The first one to draft will win the game..
I'm also in favour of a serpentine with seperate rounds, for the same reason as above
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| welker3257 |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:18
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Small Tour Specialist
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I'm all for serpentine, please don't do auto-draft.
Gig 'em Aggies
Fast N' Loud Cycling Project - ICL
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| The Rider |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:24
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First off... I recently finished Uni and I am not going back anytime soon, especially to study Maths, too many equations etc. 
I know but I don't want to change it too much majorly now after just updating the first post.
However, I will change so it is clear that if you if you win round 2 and your second pick has been taken then you will get your third pick.
We probably will have gaps in teams after the first draft, but by then the 'best riders' will have been taken by the start of a second draft. So the people who didn't just pick 7 seven leaders for the draft will be in a good position.
It is not the fairest draft system. But it is ten fold more fair than the system we used in the Tour of the chosen 1 .
However, if someone could fully explain the Serpentine system in this thread then I don't see why we can't use that system. |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:28
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World Champion
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Seperate rounds, and you turn around the order each time. So the team with the first pick in round 1 will have the last pick in round 2.
It means you actually have to think about what you're doing. If you go for an 80 rider in round 1, you better hope people won't steal the 60 riders in round 2.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:33
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
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Sepentine: (for this teams are letters A,B,C etc., and rounds are R1, R2 etc)
Round 1, order is pick randomly. A is first, B is second... U is 21st.
R2, order is reversed. U is first... A is 21st
R3, order is reversed. A is first... U is 21st
R4, order is reversed. U is first... A is 21st.
R5, R6, R7 and R8 follow this pattern.
R9 is awkward because odd numbers make this unfair. So my proposal is this: Order is re-drawn at random again. M is now 1st and P 21st. Have to pick rider with AVG to balance out to the 70 AVG average for the team.
Basically in your system you could have:
Team A being 1st in 8 rounds. This gives a total of 8 (1+1+1+1+1+1+1=8)
Team U being 21st in 8 rounds. This gives a total of 168 (21+21...etc)
Every team will have a different total
A serpentine however:
Team A being 1st in 4 rounds and 21st in 4 rounds gives 88
Team U being 21st in 4 rounds and 1st in 4 rounds gives 88.
This applies to all teams, which all end up with the same total of 88.
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:41
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Team Leader
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Dippofix wrote:
It should, in DYN_Cyclist there's a collumn for 'Nationalism', so i assume that's it.
Thats to do with National Team...
All there is in DYN_Race is the nationality of the race. Yes no-ones sure but i certainly believe it has an effect. I always see the Italians do better in Italy, French in France, Spanish in Spain...
Based on "The Ultimate GT Showdown" nationality does have effect. It's not a major/scientifically designed experiment, but Nibali was superior in Italy and the Spaniards blossomed in the Vuelta. The "monthly form bonus"-thing couldn't explain it as I had eliminated that from the equation.
That could be fixed by just changing the region of the stages to a country not taking part
Also the DB is stat(and team)-wise a copy of Daily's 2013-DB for PCM12, but with the 2012-calendar as appearing in Daily's 2012 v2 DB for PCM11
Edited by Atlantius on 03-11-2013 20:45
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:44
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World Champion
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Atlantius wrote:
Based on "The Ultimate GT Showdown" nationality does have effect. It's not a major/scientifically designed experiment, but Nibali was superior in Spain and the Spaniards blossomed in the Vuelta. The "monthly form bonus"-thing couldn't explain it as I had eliminated that from the equation.
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:46
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Team Leader
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SSJ2Luigi wrote:
Atlantius wrote:
Based on "The Ultimate GT Showdown" nationality does have effect. It's not a major/scientifically designed experiment, but Nibali was superior in Spain and the Spaniards blossomed in the Vuelta. The "monthly form bonus"-thing couldn't explain it as I had eliminated that from the equation.
Wishful thinking. Guess I still want Nibali to hold Contador at bay
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| Dippofix |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:47
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Classics Specialist
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Vincencos Nibalez Velasquez, never heard of him?
Edited by Dippofix on 03-11-2013 20:52
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| Dippofix |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:48
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3912
Joined: 29-01-2013
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Vincencos Nibalez Velasquez, never heard of him?
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| nacho63 |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:51
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Sprinter
Posts: 1944
Joined: 14-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I am totally confused by the drafting now... |
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| Selwink |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:53
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8856
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I think it'll become the serpentine system, which was explained above.
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| The Rider |
Posted on 03-11-2013 20:58
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4543
Joined: 29-02-2012
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Sepentine: (for this teams are letters A,B,C etc., and rounds are R1, R2 etc)
Round 1, order is pick randomly. A is first, B is second... U is 21st.
R2, order is reversed. U is first... A is 21st
R3, order is reversed. A is first... U is 21st
R4, order is reversed. U is first... A is 21st.
R5, R6, R7 and R8 follow this pattern.
R9 is awkward because odd numbers make this unfair. So my proposal is this: Order is re-drawn at random again. M is now 1st and P 21st. Have to pick rider with AVG to balance out to the 70 AVG average for the team.
Basically in your system you could have:
Team A being 1st in 8 rounds. This gives a total of 8 (1+1+1+1+1+1+1=8)
Team U being 21st in 8 rounds. This gives a total of 168 (21+21...etc)
Every team will have a different total
A serpentine however:
Team A being 1st in 4 rounds and 21st in 4 rounds gives 88
Team U being 21st in 4 rounds and 1st in 4 rounds gives 88.
This applies to all teams, which all end up with the same total of 88.
That sounds like a great system and we will now use this method .
But the 8 man rider lists may have to stick as we can't wait for one rider to be picked at a time as some people may go missing for days/weeks.
Unless we can get everyone together in this thread at the same time for like an hour/ hour and a half and carry out the draft pick by pick. |
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| nacho63 |
Posted on 03-11-2013 21:00
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Sprinter
Posts: 1944
Joined: 14-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ah I get that, sounds better if i'm honest |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
