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Attributes Guide
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| BritPCMFan |
Posted on 25-07-2013 13:22
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Stagiare
Posts: 245
Joined: 03-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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ShortsNL wrote:
Just a suggestion Kaimelar:
Have you tried testing RES in TT-mode?
I'm not sure but I was always under the impression that the TT bar was somehow influenced by RES, as strong TT-ers always got high RES as well.
For sure something definately effects greenbar in TT, I've noticed the same that the high TT guys seem to get more green (or slowly drain) but its not the TT stat as I can set a 65 and a 70 TT guy on the same effort with same drain. My best TTers though can usually go a dot or two higher over the whole course.
Also, I'd say Res should work where it needs to balance the game. Its possible that with the new fitness system, they were finding the guys with high res and 60 mountain where dominating mountain stages (or similar) and so disabled it for that reason. I haven't really noticed the lack of Res effect ingame giving me bad/unrealistic results.
Infact, its probably more likely that res caused breaks to be uncatchable (and if its turned on in the Simulation engine, that would explain alot) |
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 25-07-2013 13:30
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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BritPCMFan wrote:
For sure something definately effects greenbar in TT, I've noticed the same that the high TT guys seem to get more green (or slowly drain) but its not the TT stat as I can set a 65 and a 70 TT guy on the same effort with same drain. My best TTers though can usually go a dot or two higher over the whole course.
I explained it in the guide:
Time-Trial/Prologue: Effects your speed during Time-Trials meaning you reach the finish with less energy used so you can use higher effort with higher TT/PRL stat
So it is the TT/PRL which makes the illusion for having bigger green bar
Example: TT60 guy 60 effort goes with 40km/h and reaches finish with no green bar left(he ran out of energy after 30 mins) while TT80 guy 60 effort goes with 44km/h and reaches finish with some green bar left(he finished in 28 mins so he could have go with that effort 2 mins more thats why green bar isn't empty). (Don't take the numbers seriously they're just example)
Edited by Kaimelar on 25-07-2013 13:34
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| flyfly |
Posted on 27-07-2013 17:48
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Amateur
Posts: 14
Joined: 04-06-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Any news from cyanide about the RES problem ? Hopefully someone can contact them before the next patch (if there will be one)
Edited by flyfly on 27-07-2013 17:48
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 01:54
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| tellico |
Posted on 28-07-2013 16:10
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Ok, I started PCM12 and tested green bar length influence. One man have 50% green bar, second 95%. After 30km free effort difference between them was 2'30".
PCM13: after 85km no difference at all!
So... only stats counts, no matter how you play, if you save energy or if you dont, if you force opponents leader to effort or not... It has no matter. You can put all on the maintain position and go for coffee. Im devastated... This is so shallow now! I really had a lot of fun with forcing opponents to greater fatigue and satisfaction when im did it well and win weaker rider.
All bugs are meaningless in the face of the fact that barely alive cyclist can go over 100 km with the same pace and effort that rider which just jump on the bike.
IT IS NONSENSE!
EDIT: someone can, please, confirm this? I hope that is only bug. If they did it on purpose, if they denied basic principle of cycling that tired rider goes slower, then they are (sorry) brainless idiots!
And this is explanation of magic breakaways: they will be caught up only when break riders yellow bar run out bcoz there are still more riders on the peloton which had yellow and can pace. If peloton leader goes with max 165 HB then breakaway can escapes to the ocean. They never will be slower than peloton they only can be out of bars earlier than peloton.
Edited by tellico on 28-07-2013 16:54
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| ticcque |
Posted on 28-07-2013 16:57
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Under 23
Posts: 74
Joined: 04-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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tellico wrote:
Ok, I started PCM12 and tested green bar length influence. One man have 50% green bar, second 95%. After 30km free effort difference between them was 2'30".
PCM13: after 85km no difference at all!
So... only stats counts, no matter how you play, if you save energy or if you dont, if you force opponents leader to effort or not... It has no matter. You can put all on the maintain position and go for coffee. Im devastated... This is so shallow now! I really had a lot of fun with forcing opponents to greater fatigue and satisfaction when im did it well and win weaker rider.
All bugs are meaningless in the face of the fact that barely alive cyclist can go over 100 km with the same pace and effort that rider which just jump on the bike.
IT IS NONSENSE!
That answer the breakaway mystery in PCM 13 .Their pace can match the peloton in last part of race because green bar doesn't make any different anymore.So the extra energy they use early doesn't effect their pace.This is the biggest bug in PCM history if it's true and Cyanide must fix it! |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 28-07-2013 17:17
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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@tellico: It could be that Cyanide implemented the "Freshness" as a replacement for the green bar. Obviously this would be nonsense as you and ticcque have pointed out already.
I just found another bug concerning the fitness. Injury doesn't seem to change the fitness at all. I did not test it but it should be easy to confirm.
Combining these bugs, a rider can fall, get injured, get up and still win the stage with 5 minutes.
Cyanide failed so miserably with implementing the new fitness system and the new stats.
I guess I said it before: I don't know what could be worse, Cyanide not having a concept or having a concept but still able to fail so hard. |
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 28-07-2013 17:55
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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tellico wrote:
someone can, please, confirm this?
post #17, but will check later when I have time. |
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| tellico |
Posted on 28-07-2013 18:39
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Kaimelar wrote:
I tested it quickly, but there is difference not that much what I thought would be but there is some ( 20%~ green bar guy vs 50%~ green bar, 50% won by like only 1 minute~ on 10km~ mountain)
Maybe that's why breakaways can stay away this year, because of the less impact?
I tested on flat/slightly hilly, 90km, no diff at all |
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| tellico |
Posted on 28-07-2013 18:54
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Lachi wrote:
@tellico: It could be that Cyanide implemented the "Freshness" as a replacement for the green bar. Obviously this would be nonsense as you and ticcque have pointed out already.
I think you may be right. If the pace would depend on the total length of the green bar it would be a snowball effect. So they just turned it off. But there are plenty of possible solutions for this, e.g. factor which starts every day from 0 and increases to X depending on the amount of TODAY green bar lost or effort or something, damn it!. And this factor is subtracted in the real-time from all or selected attributes. Even more, X can be setting by player in game settings!
Nooo, they just turned it off. Less details less troubles.
In PCM15 will be only quick sim option
Edited by tellico on 28-07-2013 18:56
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| ticcque |
Posted on 28-07-2013 19:17
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Under 23
Posts: 74
Joined: 04-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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tellico wrote:
In PCM15 will be only quick sim option
Without rider stat.. |
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 28-07-2013 19:42
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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tellico wrote:
I tested on flat/slightly hilly, 90km, no diff at all
40%~ vs 70%~ 30 effort, first difference 26 seconds, 20 km later 61 seconds so there is difference
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| ticcque |
Posted on 28-07-2013 19:44
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Under 23
Posts: 74
Joined: 04-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Lachi wrote:
I just found another bug concerning the fitness. Injury doesn't seem to change the fitness at all. I did not test it but it should be easy to confirm.
Combining these bugs, a rider can fall, get injured, get up and still win the stage with 5 minutes.
The minor injury still work.My leader fall in flat stage and got minor injury.Next stage(hill) he lost 3minutes,even my helper finish higher than him.Btw you can put any number from 1-15 in fitness_i_handicap column to test.(You can refer STA_handicap for minor injury effect)
*if cyanide ruin this too I will burn them alive! |
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| tellico |
Posted on 28-07-2013 20:23
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Kaimelar wrote:
40%~ vs 70%~ 30 effort, first difference 26 seconds, 20 km later 61 seconds so there is difference
Hmmm, interesting why there is no difference in my test. They both ride side to side on free effort (from 25 to 85) ~90km. How did you "drain" green bar? By editing before start? I got tired of one of the riders in the race and wait some km until yel/red bars regenerate and then put them both on free eff. They wasnt in diff groups (E1, E2).
In PCM12 i did all in the same way and diff was huge.
EDIT: and i use save from career, this was one of the T-A stage, not a single stage
EDIT2: if there are difference between 3D mode and sim, you say that in sim RES have influence, maybe green bar influence are different in career mode and single race mode OR EVEN has matter that this is stage race or single day classic? Maybe they disable this for stage races in career or something... Can you check it?
Edited by tellico on 28-07-2013 20:45
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 28-07-2013 20:41
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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tellico wrote:
Hmmm, interesting why there is no difference in my test. They both ride side to side on free effort (from 25 to 85) ~90km. How did you "drain" green bar? By editing before start? I got tired of one of the riders in the race and wait some km until yel/red bars regenerate and then put them both on free eff. They wasnt in diff groups (E1, E2).
In PCM12 i did all in the same way and diff was huge.
EDIT: and i use save from career, this was one of the T-A stage, not a single stage
Put them in different group, when you have guys next to each other there's some kind of sucking/slipstream effect which makes it possible to stay together even if there would be difference between the two if they rode separate and since difference in speed wouldn't be that much they stick together in your tests and be sure to turn off rider variables too
For example: 50 vs 85 STA would stay together until 190-200km because of that effect, so put them in different group
Edited by Kaimelar on 28-07-2013 20:45
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| Lachi |
Posted on 28-07-2013 21:33
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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ticcque wrote:
Lachi wrote:
I just found another bug concerning the fitness. Injury doesn't seem to change the fitness at all. I did not test it but it should be easy to confirm.
The minor injury still work.My leader fall in flat stage and got minor injury.Next stage(hill) he lost 3 minutes,even my helper finish higher than him. Btw you can put any number from 1-15 in fitness_i_handicap column to test. (You can refer STA_handicap for minor injury effect)
*if cyanide ruin this too I will burn them alive!
So minor injury works but the severe injury not? I had a rider out for two month but the fitness in his "objective" page was unaffected.
How about breaking your leg in Giro, then return on bike in June win the TdF. |
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| ticcque |
Posted on 28-07-2013 22:08
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Under 23
Posts: 74
Joined: 04-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Unfortunately yes! If i am right in previous PCM when rider injured his fitness significantly drop because he cannot train..Looked like new fitness system and the freshness thing make whole system dysfunction.
*When I open DYN_cyclist_fitness I notice the "value_i_fat_phy" column.Do you know what it meant? |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 28-07-2013 22:50
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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No, I have not looked into the fitness until now.
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 29-07-2013 09:01
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 898
Joined: 17-11-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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@ Lachi, I can confirm minor injuries still exist. When doing the TDF with Vacansoleil I had De Gendt crash on the first stage and then lose 10 minutes in Corsica.
I really hope Cyanide releases another patch. The RES/Yellow bar and the lack of impact of the Green bar really need fixing. |
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| tellico |
Posted on 29-07-2013 09:26
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Kamelar verified my test and green bar length have an impact but if two riders are not in the same group: "when you have guys next to each other there's some kind of sucking/slipstream effect which makes it possible to stay together even if there would be difference between the two if they rode separate and since difference in speed "
However this in turn arises new questions: the weaker rider is pulled by a stronger or more powerful is slowed down by weaker |
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 29-07-2013 09:53
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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tellico wrote:
Kamelar verified my test and green bar length have an impact but if two riders are not in the same group
There is difference even if in same group they just need big enough difference I just said it's easier to test if they're in different groups because of that effect.
Anyway for example: 40% vs 75% green bar on 60 effort next to each other, it took 20 km for the 75% guy to get rid of the 40% one after they were in different group difference between the two went up to 2 minutes in the next 25km. |
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