You know I have been examining this database for some time, SN (if it isn't all him then shout it out) has done a superjob with some of the new (and adapted) riders. Loads of new talent, should be a really exciting transfer season and I am hopeful for the CDiv2 guys as well whoever they will be. But congratulations SN and anyone else who had a hand in this data work of art.
I have been checking out to see whether there is any famous riders with the same birthday as me. I thought it would be fun, I notice that I am a couple of days older than one of my former targets Yeison Delgado and also Pirelli's Jose Serpa. Kevin Pauwels (a few years younger) is the most 'famous' name I can find with my birthday and I already knew about him.
How depressing that a recent media release from Pirelli eludes to Serpa being over the hill
No I didn't Roman - I didn't think there was much particularly wrong with that, I was just trying to be assertive. I wasn't talking about free agents anyhow.
I would never reveal a talent, which I could potentially make an offer for. I wouldn't be mad at others doing so. I guess it's part of a strategy, which is for everyone to decide themselves.
I'm not a big fan of listing the talents, who could become good, but to mention the 2-3 best talents in the DB I really have no problem with. If we actually do have managers dumb enough to overlook those obvious riders, then they should have no chance in doing well no matter how much advise they receive.
I don't believe for one second that this Italian GT rider will become more expensive now, with a name and Giro Winner in the same sentence. He already have an invisible pricetag, that most team would pay for him. If too many have the same pricetag, he might get higher prices, but in all honesty I don't think that a discussion about him would up that. The marked will do that itself. And when 15 different managers offer on one rider, then the lazy-asses will notice him anyway.
But to be understood correctly, I'm against telling about a rider whom are not necessarily one to be discovered by anyone. A rider with stats of 69 or so, with pot 7 and level 1 could easily be untagged by 80-90% of the managers, and so telling about him would definately up the marked, which is not fair to those spending hours on end searching.
Or well, that is just my thoughts. To me, it's a game of great diversity (Spelling?) and that fact is what makes it great. Open bounderies will make people react differently, but in the end all tactics are allowed, if moving inside those. I have to respect people doing things I would never do, because it's probably the way they intent to get the most of their own win. That MUST be respectable, as a game imo is not just taking part, it's taking part to an extend where people around you clearly realises that you care for, and love the game - And want to win!
All I can hope this year no one will be trying to increase the wages for some free agents only because "he felt that the X rider needed to go for more than that"
Well if people does, they are also inferring that, if rider X is too cheap, they might aswell get his services themselves. That is a perfectly good argument imo. I could do that myself:
A rider with 77MO, 76TT looks to be going for 80K. I'll look at the market and say, oh well. The 79MO 71TT rider I was looking for is now worth 220K. So this rider must certainly be underpaid. I will go for him, until his wage reaches the other rider. Should he go to 230K, I might turn to my first choice yet again. It's about value for the money, at some point you have to re-saddle in order to get the most value, even if it reasons in changing your transferplans.
Btw, how do you other guys use the db to check out riders? I use a lot of different sort options, among those wage, avg, xp_level, country, division, team, different stats. (of course not at the same time, but I tend to combine at least 2, at times 3) Anyone else having a totally different approach, that I haven't thought of?
I share my Birthday with Fedrigo and Di Gregorio, though not on the same year. Eerily enough, the only person I know who shares the exact same birthday as me is SportingNonsense. Weird...
As for browsing, I just tend to stare blankly at the screen 'til something interesting pops up at me. I occasionally sort by an individual stat, and browse through to see who the best Free Agent is.
Finally, since I haven't said it yet, great work on the DB, SN
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SportingNonsense wrote:
The Excel DB has now been updated with renewals for all teams - except Warner Brothers, who have yet to do any. You will also now be able to see the 3171 free agents on offer.
I tend to think that the status of riders like Boonen and Spilak need to be clarified before going into the transfer season.
SotD wrote:
Agree with fenian...
Doddy will renew when he has the time, and when he does so, expect them to be renewed. Transfers wont be delayed or shortened just to wait for all teams to do renewals. I rather suspect more managers would rather have a full transfer period, starting sooner rather than later.
A recurring theme in the discussion seems to be that of naming certain riders, saying who will be good. etc
mb2612 wrote:
Why, if I spend 6 hours looking at the database, and work out the 100 best talents, then rank them from 1 to 100, why should I not be allowed to tell everyone else who they are.
Why would you want to tell everyone who they are? Why waste all your effort and any effort others have been made, by ensuring that everyone knows who they should be buying in the transfers?
Sure. ultimately there may not seem to be a huge gain in hiding what you find, because at some point you do have to make a public bid, thus bringing the rider to a wider audience - but it is definately the case that a good manager can use the DB to find useful riders and build a stronger team than a manager who does not look through the DB so much.
Its like how I didnt like Smowz' analysis of HC races a couple of months ago. Sure, it was well written and a great read, but also too great a help to other managers - thus reducing the potential gains a more clever, analytical manager can make over those 'lazy' managers who for whatever reason, put in less time to the game. Those who put more time into the game should get adequate reward for doing so, and likewise, those who have been in the game for a while should have a chance to be able to use the experience theyve gained.
(Hopefully though, as each year goes by, the so often hated 'lazy' managers reduce in quantity. Id like to think those that stick around have enough interest in the game to put in their own efforts, while the new managers have so far been looking like good positive additions to the game)
During the transfer period, my general rule on it will be that you shouldnt be pointing out other riders to other teams, if that rider already has bids on them - and you shouldnt be pointing out others to anyone at all in the first week of the transfer period. Theres two main scenarios here
- A rival team of yours, lets say Team Volcano, has the highest bid on a rider, lets say a climber called Roberto Orange, and you think they are getting a bargain, but dont personally have the funds to join in. So you decide to PM other managers to say that they should be bidding on Orange.
Last year this was not explicitly forbidden, do it this year and you will be out of the game in a flash. Likewise, any other dodgy maneouvre that you think youll get away with because the rules dont specifically disallow it, will also lead to severe sanctions to your team and/or you being kicked out of the game. Theres been a few examples in ManGame history where people have taken advantage of gaps in the rules to do dishonest moves, and its the only part of the game that I absolutely cant stand - whether my team is the intended victim or not. In the past I have taken a more lenient approach and gone down the "its happened, its annoying, but the best I can do is add in a rule for next years transfers" route. This year, that wont be the case.
- The other scenario is not as bad, or may not seem to be, hence why I have split it up a bit in the rules: Suggesting a rider to a team, who hasnt had any bids on him. The example for this I believe most likely is if you are after 50k domestiques, and then others decide to also bid on this rider, even though there are many other riders in the database with similar stats and no bids. In Week 1, by all means send a moany PM to that person and hope they stop, but dont go suggesting other riders who have received no bids - it is feasible that someone else may have been planning to go for that rider. By Week 2, if a manager really wants a rider - whatever skill level - then it can be presumed that they have bid on them by now, so I see no problem in then pointing out similar riders to other teams in the hope that they stop bidding on a rider youd hope to get cheap - although ultimately there is nothing you or anyone else to do to stop them, and thats just part of transfers - you wont get it all your own rider and have every rider you want go to you cheaply.
Some people seem to have got confused and tried to defend complaints on this by saying theres nothing wrong with themselves switching from Rider A to a similar Rider B who is going for less. Well, duh, of course that is fine - you can always bid on whoever you like, the only issue in general bidding is if you are bidding on too many riders (generally only new teams do this, and more specifically, only 1 or 2 of the new teams), or if you are clearly outbidding what you can afford.
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ANFreeman wrote:
I share my Birthday with Fedrigo and Di Gregorio, though not on the same year. Eerily enough, the only person I know who shares the exact same birthday as me is SportingNonsense. Weird...
SNAP! (Oddly, youre not the first user on here Ive noticed has the exact same date) But I think youve somehow got the wrong dates for Fedrigo and Di Gregorio
Given that many of the new riders are from 1991, I cant believe I forgot to give one of the top free agents the same birthday as me. Kevin de Jonghe is distinctly average. Theres a few others who share the same day, but different years. Most notably the Efimkin brothers at exactly 10 years older, as well as Joao Cabreira who is a Vesuvio rider, and Piotr Mazur, who used to be. And suddenly Dennis van Winden becomes a transfer target ...
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And thanks for all the thanks regarding the database. I calculated the future stats of all the new riders in the game to help me decide what stats for them to have, and Im happy with the dynamic they bring. It will be at least 3 seasons before some of them reach their, as rjc has brought up, but when they do get there, there will be plenty of good new talent in the game - its really an ideal time for a new CT team to come in and follow the route previously taken most notably by B&O and Wiggle in young talents, although Im sure all existing teams will have something to say about that, and also have their eye on a lot of the talents!
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Finally, please note a stats error in the database. Last year Wikipedia trained Van Garderen from 80 hill to 81 hill. This somehow got overlooked in the DB and so he raced the season as 80 hill - and still did rather well! In future Excel DBs he will have his rightful stat of 81, you may like to change it in your own current copy.
Edited by SportingNonsense on 21-06-2011 02:24
SNAP! (Oddly, youre not the first user on here Ive noticed has the exact same date) But I think youve somehow got the wrong dates for Fedrigo and Di Gregorio
I think I got the date and month the wrong way around...
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