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[CT] Questions
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| Rin |
Posted on 13-10-2012 21:25
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CrueTrue wrote:
Not really sure where to put it, so it goes here - any tips on how to run a successful continental team? I don't plan on staying for too long 
I think you could have a look at my team:
I planned at the beginning of the season actually to get a big rider to lead for a ProTour as I calculated some people will be disbanding at the end of the season and you wouldn't need a Top 2 place.
My team missed promotion by one place or let's say having bad luck that Domina Vacanze took part at the transfers but not planning the season.
I saw the Free Agent wages for the riders I liked to have were that high, that I changed that more into getting more depth into the team.
My LEGO 2011 team was decent but there were some missing pieces, not LEGO ones..
I had Claeys, Monfort, Rabon and Gil but the team really escalated with getting De la Fuente, Cobo and Lloret. To be honest not very good PT riders but very ok for CT. So having 8 very good CT scorers was very good in the end rather than 5 with a big scorer.
I had always a duo with that depthness that could even compete if there would be 3 clashing hilly one day classics..
Sometimes I could even send more then 2 strong riders in a race if I wanted to (and did that).
I had always a duo of:
Claeys and Monfort/Rabon
Cobo and De la Feunte/Gil
Lloret and De la Fuente/Cobo/Gil/Schwab
Also I have Ciolek as a sprinter.
Hadn't got any cobbler as I think cobblers might be worthless for CT (sorry bpost  ) as there are too less races for very specialized riders.. But if you have someone like Boonen who might sprint and race on cobbles then I would consider someone.
So I would say even though that might be not good for PT but CT top places, get some riders that have 76 and more in HIL.
But also picking the right races (PT teams are racing every PT race, so that would be something new for you) is very important. Trying to see which races might be overloaded with top riders, which races will be underrated by managers where not that much will show up so you will have it much easier to score with the right riders.
I think I might have a hard time at the ProTour as my riders who scored last season will decline very soon are are declining already..
 Team Bianchi - 2012 Man-Game ProContinental Tour Champions
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| Smowz |
Posted on 13-10-2012 22:06
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That post CT smells of a bit of a troll - you know we can't resist a bit of a brag?
You want the my version of it, well it's a balancing act. My 'secret' was to avoid those riders that others adore that being stage racers and youngsters.
But the beauty of the CTour (as I believe is true in any category of the Mangame) is that any specialism works if done well. Bpost probably went a bit far in the cobbleloving-fanatic. But Rapha Condor and Pokerstars did pretty decently out of those races - and we all recall Vanspeybrouck catapulting Ikea to top spot.So Gusev may not be the dead loss after all.
Devolder? Dekker? The DD? I'd get a breast reduction trade em in, in some way for four riders perhaps of the hilly or sprint variety? I say that of course as a new Protour guy just desperate for a Devolder or Dekker to boost our squad. These type of riders were the anchor around the neck of Pirelli, VolksWagen, Vespa etc. in the CTour.
Spending 700K on some Belgian sprinter is probably a bad idea (I sneaked it in one last time)? But maybe spending a cool million on some one dimensional hack works also? That said the 2011 domination of Ignatiev didn't work in 2012, I am not sure the Alarcon days of 2012 will work in 2013.
So many posssibilities... same goes for Crommy really? Get rid of the huge star they are not gonna give you the return and replace by two or three that will perhaps?
All I'll say is enjoy it CTour its the best, give CountArach, Roturn, Heine, pellizotti, etc. hell  Make your triumphant return to the protour and one day topple those volcano guys?
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| Heine |
Posted on 13-10-2012 22:14
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Topple the Vulcano guys? That is my future job 
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 14-10-2012 23:57
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Small Tour Specialist
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A question to the experienced managers about the nature of wage negotiations.
There are some very good riders on the free agent list, but the competition for those riders is probably going to be fierce. Many managers, including me if I get selected, will be tempted to offer them extremely high wages. I think it's very likely that in the past some managers have given in to this temptation. How does this play out in the long run?
Let's consider the following scenario: Manager X signs free agent Rider Y for a 700k wage, while riders of his caliber earn 300k on average. During the season, Rider Y's stats don't change and he accumulates an amount of points that you would expect of a rider with his stats.
What kind of wage do you think Rider Y will ask for in the ensuing negotiations? Is it possible that he asks for a wage in the 300-400k range? (i.e. current wage is just one of the many factors in wage calculation.) Will it more likely be in the 500-600k range? (i.e. current wage is a very important factor in the wage calculation.) Or will he ask for something around the 700k mark? (i.e. the wage calculation seems to be applied as a change relative to the current wage.)
This information would mean a lot to new managers as it helps them determine how far they can go in the wage wars. |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 14-10-2012 23:59
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500-600k, from my experience. |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 15-10-2012 00:34
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SN has confirmed that current wages play a part in negotiations and wage demands.
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 15-10-2012 01:26
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My opinion is that wage war riders, or riders who cost a lot of money, just shouldn't be a target for CT teams. They are bound to disappoint by either not producing enough or not having enough race days to make an impact. I re-signed Pozzato last season on 800,000 which was down from an initial demand of 930,000. If I had kept him for the season I don't think I would have promoted. As it was I was paying 300,000 of his wages while he was on loan, and brought in an overpriced Sammy Sanchez at 350,000. I freed up quite a lot of money, even though I was paying 300,000 in dead weight.
And it you look at the top performing teams they have lots of ok riders, few of whom are grossly overpaid. Perhaps the only real exception to the rule is Alarcon, and there aren't a whole lot of Alarcons floating around.
I don't think one big star is enough anymore, certainly not in the CT world. One big star (which is what 6-700,000 wages would mean for a CT squad, just the one) just isn't worth it. I advise you to take the long view. Wiggle did it, B&O did it, Santander did it, I did it(the bulk of my points came from core riders, some of whom were just Slipstream kiddies when the CT started).
The long view builds a team with identity. I have 5 originals, and about 6 who joined in the second season. Combined, these riders scored 2154 points with a combined wage of 881,000. That's 60% of my points for Pozzato money, and believe me, that is far more points than Pozzato would ever score.
Another long view bonus is that I've become rather attached to my riders, probably to the detriment of my team Just ask Dave how often he has offered good money and been turned down by my sentimentality
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| SotD |
Posted on 15-10-2012 11:49
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Well spoken Levi. Also these teams are often better of in the long run, because people tend to sympathise a bit with their mentality to run the game, while managers like myself who wants to win for the sake of the win, are normally not so popular in the off season, hence making it harder to negotiate with other managers (It's often here you make the best bargains btw!).
So be cool about it, and stay true to your team colours, and what you have listed as a ground base for your team in the future. You can experience lightening succes if you just go and grab the cheapest riders at the best quality evertime, but in the long run it will be bad for your team.
I tend to go for riders that can produce here and now, don't give a shit about age. If they can win me a GT next season, I'll buy them. That means that every season I have a couple of riders that will ask to much in wages considering the potential ability for next season. Also loanies have left me with very little. One of my best riders of this season was Pozzato, whom I paid 500K for. I would die to prolong that deal, but instead he is now joining a competitor, and probably at slightly less than those 800K that he should have paid last season. So I just got myself a serious competitor for the races I actually want to dominate, such as Milano-San Remo.
The best possible tip I can give you is to make a list of riders you really want, because they fit well in your team, and go for those, and then don't care too much if others make a bargain here and there. I try to do that myself, even though it's hard when you see one of you competitors landing a great rider at too little a wage in an hour or two. Do yourself a favor and never bid up that late. It tends to piss off, not only you competitor, but also some of the people he negotiates with, and then you can quickly be blacklisted as a guy that definately DOES NOT get a bargain during the Free Agents period. So, stand on your heels, but walk on your toes 
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 15-10-2012 12:03
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All very good information and advice, thanks! |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 15-10-2012 18:54
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While free agent bidding may not always be the best option, it is the option most new teams will have to use for the majority of their deals.
You won't have a lot of money to use as transfer fees, and will need to be careful with the amount that you do have. There are always some managers who are only interested in benefiting themselves and will try to convince you to pay a higher fee than the rider is really worth, while others will be more willing to accept a fee that works for both teams.
You definately should avoid rushing in to a deal that uses up most of the money you have available for transfer fees - you could find transfers somewhat frustrating if all you can then do is bid on free agents - unless of course, you are sure that that early deal is for the rider you most want to have!
A possible way of gaining a bit of extra transfer fund for new teams could be taking on loans of PT teams' young riders. You are doing PT teams a big favour if you do this, so can quite rightly expect them to pay you a good fee for doing so.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 04:33
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| SotD |
Posted on 15-10-2012 19:00
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Especially if the CT/PCT offer to pay the wage on top. Wage Cap is VERY VERY important for PT teams in order to make a good result. The remaining cash is not as useful, unless you need X amount of money on training a specific rider.
So most PT teams would be interested in paying fx. 200K for a CT team to take a 70K waged young talent in a season. The better the rider is, the less you can expect to get "on top" though, if you know what I mean.
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 15-10-2012 20:44
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Thanks SN and Andreas, that is a very good idea! |
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| SotD |
Posted on 16-10-2012 08:03
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Cheers mate. Is it the DubbelDekker from Cyanide forum back in the days btw?
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| Heine |
Posted on 16-10-2012 08:11
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Sotd: It is ;-)
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 16-10-2012 12:30
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Yes. Good to see you again, mr Johnke! |
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| SotD |
Posted on 16-10-2012 12:42
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World Champion
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Awesome. Cheers mate, long time no see
I'll be happy to help you out once we get started, and I probably have a rider or two you could have for bargains, to get started. Really cool to have you playing this kinds of games again.
Hopefully you'll be selected, it would be a good asset to the game I reckon.
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 16-10-2012 13:08
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Thanks, I appreciate that. We'll see what happens. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 16-10-2012 16:34
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Tour de France Champion
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Glad to see you back |
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 16-10-2012 17:30
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Small Tour Specialist
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Mike! How are you? Awesome work on pcmdaily; best cycling manager/pcm community ever.
RJC:
Edited by rjc_43 on 16-10-2012 17:33
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 16-10-2012 17:31
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lol, why is there no edit button? That's easily one of the worst typos I've ever made. The buttons aren't even next to each other... |
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