You are right with lack of objectivity Smowz, it is like you were not in this forum for months, when half of info in your post was discussed before.
As you well know I have been on the forum for 'months'. Near enough every day I see you first thing you bleating on and on about Sagan, Kreuziger and how much you dislike Sky and that they are cheating and so on before going to work.
I respect your opinion on the matter, I don't have the time to comment every morning before I go to work doesn't make my opinion any less valid.
1.Enjoy? Every man has his own taste, but what is enjoyable on this inhuman performances and on looking on someone with 187cms and 66kgs!!! absolutely ripping apart the opposition.
I didn't really enjoy yesterdays stage, to be honest I was disappointed that after seeing some really nice fighting by Movistar and Saxobank. No-one was in the same league as Froome (or Quintana either).
2.Quintana faded because he was not longer in slipstream of Froome, where he spent majority of second part of the climb and where he had time to recover a bit. Once Froome accelerated just for fun, he was looking like he stopped. Nobody seen dead Froome taking oxygen, just kissing his stupid girlfriend. Quintana was seen to be almost on the other side...
Also Quintana is Colombian, who should be more used to higher altitudes and was absolutely anihilating the opposition in U23 races climbs. Still he was some 45 seconds slower on the climb, Nieve was 1.30 slower and so on.
I keep hearing this over and again. Quintana has the U23 results, he is Colombian etc. He is still only 23... he will be annihilating opposition in years to come with times far quicker than what has been recorded before.
I heard on TV that the podium's had been delayed because Froome and Quintana needed Oxygen. I am sure they were not the only ones after putting it all on the the line in a climb like that.
3.What do you mean by incomplete times of climbing in Ax3 or Ventoux? You think that people who were stopping the time were cheating just for fun? Or that fact that Froome is comparable with times of biggest dopers in history of cycling like Armstrong, Pantani, Ullrich as an imagination served by jealous people outside of GB?
Of course that wind, speed of peloton (which was insane for 220 kms yesterday!!!) can made the actual climbing times different, but one cannot laugh when seeing Froome slowing down before taking the corner to avoid crashing, just because he was fucking flying when others where dying.
What I mean by incomplete is the Ventoux times are exclusively from four Tour's 2000, 2002, 2009 and 2013. The fastest times of those four stages are:
However it is mentioned underneath that the record is Pantani's 1994 ascent in 46 minutes flat. Considerably faster than all of the top 50. The biggest dopers Ullrich and Armstrong were nowhere near that level neither was Froome. Could be the conditions were favourable. But that list is incomplete to me.
4.Porte was not told to hold back in second mountain stage, he just used his blood bad a day too soon and was doing a Landis revival. Dropping climbing stars left and right one day, being shite the other day. And dropping them again yesterday bar Contador and Kreuziger (these two exploded right after that), before cruising to the finish and smiling all the way to the cameras.
He uses his blood bag a day too soon... that is pure speculation on your part. More likely Porte having worked very hard to drop 'climbing stars' the day before was knackered. Thought he will be able to come back later and could not.
5.Your point with ex-Sky riders doing good now. Nordhaug,really? And Cavendish and Flecha is not good example, as it seems that Sky is choosing their TdF climbing core for their doping program, others are still on normal level. Rogers is also worse now, hard to judge others, lets wait if likes of Kennaugh will be good anywhere else possibly.
I differ on opinion here. To me Rogers 2013 = Rogers 2012. Nordhaug is probably like Cav and Flecha a pretty insignificant example - still he seems pretty much the same this year as the last two years.
6. I am no hating, but yeah, frustration is here. Especially because i follow cycling from 1994 live and i have seen so many doped performances, which i was supposed to believe, that i am sick already with this bullshit. Questioning Sagan compared to what Froome does not make sense to me to be honest. Does he became world beater just from one day to another like Froome who needed new contract in 2011 Vuelta?
Nibali and Cance for example, why not question them, we should question anyone suspicious. Thse two are/were almost certainly doping too. I think cycling is not much cleaner nowadays and performances of 2013 are nice proof of that. Who does not want to see it, come with similar conclusions to yours.
To be honest Avin, I have same conclusions that there is a considerable amount of doping around in sport today. What I don't believe is that Froome is simply doped up to his eyeballs with a 'bucket load of dope' and everyone else isn't. That seems to be the general theme around here, I love Quintana and I hate Froome.
I still harbour the feeling that Sagan, along with sprinters like Cavendish, Kittel etc are riding pretty much clean.
Smowz wrote:
As you well know I have been on the forum for 'months'. Near enough every day I see you first thing you bleating on and on about Sagan, Kreuziger and how much you dislike Sky and that they are cheating and so on before going to work.
I respect your opinion on the matter, I don't have the time to comment every morning before I go to work doesn't make my opinion any less valid.
Sorry if that sounded disrespectful. I dont think your opinion is not valid, only that many parts of that were disproved before. Of course not everyone have enough time to read every bit of every post, there are more important things to do. I now have time because of my long term injury, so i read it all and i am more annoying with Sagan and Kreuziger than usually. As many people here, i just discuss my favourite riders more than other ones and i post a lot, so that is the outcome.
On your last point, i dont think only Froome is doped in this race and i think majority of valid posters here thinks the same. He is just the biggest target and prime example, i dont know if he sometimes think about how stupid this have to look after Armstrong case, or he is just not thinking at all.
But i agree it is strange that Quintana is hyped so much and every second post is about him and he is loved, while when i post something about someone else i like, it is always called hype. That is the reality od every discussion forum. But again, Quintana shows steady progression, not dominance from nothing...
triskin wrote:
must say i never expected 19 yr old Danny v Poppel to finish before Cunego, Van Garderen, Hesjedal and Taaramäe on Mont Ventoux
nice but..Cunego never been at shape at this year. Van Garderen he's season peak was Amgen tour (with realy weak startlist)..totaly lost after that, Hesjedal was man for Giro (also Gesink ..If someone is forgetting it), Taaramäe..well he has been idiot last 2 years...and this year asthma and all problems just chasing him.
Before tour I was thinking that Taaramäe should give up he's spot for a rider who can ride. But he hoped for last moment that some miracle will cure him..and he will be at top form with that spring?
Naive
samdiatmh wrote:
for some light relief from the Skybot "efforts"
yesterday's results:
37 Adam Hansen (Aus) Lotto Belisol - 0:10:29
38 Andreas Klöden (Ger) RadioShack Leopard - 0:10:42
39 Andy Schleck (Lux) RadioShack Leopard
outclimbed by Adam Hansen for crying out loud
Yeah I noticed that as well and had a little laugh to myself
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/
Lung infection. He's been on medication since the nationals
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
man has no descent-proper preparation..he can be good ..he can be good a week.But at the moment beside that man just cant breatf..he's lungs workind for 75-80% for normal. He can not take stronger drugs for Asthma because they are already at dope list.
anyway this season is fucked up for him. Now he hired personal coach..lets hope that 2014 will be great again.
Smowz wrote:
What I mean by incomplete is the Ventoux times are exclusively from four Tour's 2000, 2002, 2009 and 2013. The fastest times of those four stages are:
However it is mentioned underneath that the record is Pantani's 1994 ascent in 46 minutes flat. Considerably faster than all of the top 50. The biggest dopers Ullrich and Armstrong were nowhere near that level neither was Froome. Could be the conditions were favourable. But that list is incomplete to me.
Sorry if that wasn't clear, you are completely correct it is only post 2000. Pantani does indeed hold the record for the Tour some 2-3 minutes quicker at 46:00 in 1994. Whereas Iban Mayo holds the overall record for the climb as a result of his ITT during the Dauphine in 2004 clocked at 45:47. The sample size isn't wonderful too as you mentioned.
I agree with many of your points - certainly there is a natural tendency for people to observe or pick only the facts that fit their story. We all do it, me included. To me Froome looked exhausted after the finish too but of course that doesn't prove anything - it's still possible to be tired when you're doped!
Now I'm aware I always ere on the side of caution when making a definitive judgement on whether someone is cheating, especially when basing those judgements almost exclusively on performance. For me there are reasons to be suspicious of Froome, some of which include performances in this Tour but that's where it ends, suspicion - I will wait to see the whole Tour (and many more climbs) in context.
Before I get the accusations of preferential treatment for a fellow countrymen I'm reticent to condemn anyone and I'm not a fan of Froome. The (comical) "style" on the bike is probably enough for most but in addition he now seems to have been instructed to big up the British thing by the sponsor after years of identifying with his Kenyan upbringing. That's just another example of the insincerity that comes across for me - many see polite interview style I see insincere.
Meanwhile it's healthy to question outstanding performances and I'm certainly doing that right now...
Edited by ianrussell on 15-07-2013 16:23
The reason for Pantani (and others) doing faster times in 1994 is quite simple.
The only thing limiting how much EPO you took back then was how much you think you could take before dying. In the 2000s you had to take microdoses and do most of your doping through blood transfusions.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
samdiatmh wrote:
for some light relief from the Skybot "efforts"
yesterday's results:
37 Adam Hansen (Aus) Lotto Belisol - 0:10:29
38 Andreas Klöden (Ger) RadioShack Leopard - 0:10:42
39 Andy Schleck (Lux) RadioShack Leopard
outclimbed by Adam Hansen for crying out loud
Yeah I noticed that as well and had a little laugh to myself
And Mederel, Gilbert, Molard, Mate and Hernandez..
Actualy Gilbert rode an amazing stage and his climbing was well above his abilities, he's getting in great shape!
So he'll win 2 Vuelta stages and does a WC-double?
And Adam Hansen is just a beast. One of the biggest engines in the peleton, always underrated in the databases.
A bit late, but did anyone notice the fan running alongside Quintana carrying a stuffed wild boar?
I didn't see it live myself, but one of the Swedish commentators linked a video after they both almost died of laughter while seeing it. Thought it might be worth sharing. 12 seconds into the clip.
As many people here, i just discuss my favourite riders more than other ones and i post a lot, so that is the outcome. 
