|
Alberto Contador Positive
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 08:37
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Ybodonk |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:19
|
Domestique
Posts: 510
Joined: 24-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
doddy13 wrote:
Ybodonk wrote:
1. Not end of Saxobank. He will come back and win the vuelta.
2. If he is lucky, and they find some kind of agreement, then they maybe will withdraw a couple of months of punishment ?
3. There is over 40 cases of clenbuterol USAGES in ELITE sport, where every single one of the athlete had a HIGHER clenbuterol level than contador - and ALL OF THESE ATHLETES was found NOT GUILTY.
4. This is a disgrace against the sport. Its a witch hunt, and a very very sad day for the sport.
5. TDF will miss the biggest Star since Armstrong, no doubt. This will def. cost the sport money in sponsorships, spectators and other PR stuff.
6.IMO Contador is as guilty as the rest of TDF top 5. He has not done anything more wrong than them.
7. F. Schelck Paid E. Fuentes 6691 EURO, that is IMO way more guilty and suspicious than this clenbuterol case.
Its so fkn sad. And F. Schleck never did get any punishment, since UCI, WADA etc bought the bullshit explaination; I was paying for training programs. YEAH RIGHT - most idiotic explaination ever and he wasnt even charged.
1. Meh, maybe
2. As opposed to his 5 taken off already, and the very leniate ban.
3. Yeah, this is cycling. It's banned, end of.
4. So you (and others) say. I call it justice however, he did something against the rules and got punished. Fair?
5. Army missing didn't do last years tour any harm. Or this years TDU actually, which despite Armstrong not being there INCREASED in popularity.
6. Except the clenbuterol thing...
7. Yeah, it's a dumb system. He should be punished, but won't.
Since you are an administrator of the site i suppose you have followed cycling for more than a decade just like me. I hournestly dont believe that he is more doped than the rest of top 5. It is very naive to think that the top 5 now is "clean" just because they havent been tested positive. How come it be that the top 5 GT riders in the world are driving faster on the mountains than armstrong ever did ? Armstrong and his era was a doping era, almost everyone around him has been tested positive. Hes biggest rivals was all excluded for diff. doping cases. So if the TDF king armstrong who was so immortal in the TDF, was pure, but everyone around him wasnt, and now all todays generation are driving EVEN FASTER than these guys, should be "clean/pure"? Its a very naive thought.
I love cycling, i wouldnt mind if doping was legal to a certain level, so we could stop KILLING our beloved sport.
Contador is without doubt the biggest asset Cycling has ATM. |
| |
|
|
| CrueTrue |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:21
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
The rest of the top-5 might be as bad as Contador, but why would that exclude Contador from being banned? He got caught - one more doper is down. Be happy about that.
If you think Schleck and co. are doped too, well, let's hope they are caught eventually. |
| |
|
|
| siwi |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:23
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1148
Joined: 02-11-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
You dont even know if he is a doper  CAS cant prove it? They just think something and ban him. |
| |
|
|
| johannes-w |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:24
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 833
Joined: 24-04-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ybodonk wrote:
doddy13 wrote:
Ybodonk wrote:
1. Not end of Saxobank. He will come back and win the vuelta.
2. If he is lucky, and they find some kind of agreement, then they maybe will withdraw a couple of months of punishment ?
3. There is over 40 cases of clenbuterol USAGES in ELITE sport, where every single one of the athlete had a HIGHER clenbuterol level than contador - and ALL OF THESE ATHLETES was found NOT GUILTY.
4. This is a disgrace against the sport. Its a witch hunt, and a very very sad day for the sport.
5. TDF will miss the biggest Star since Armstrong, no doubt. This will def. cost the sport money in sponsorships, spectators and other PR stuff.
6.IMO Contador is as guilty as the rest of TDF top 5. He has not done anything more wrong than them.
7. F. Schelck Paid E. Fuentes 6691 EURO, that is IMO way more guilty and suspicious than this clenbuterol case.
Its so fkn sad. And F. Schleck never did get any punishment, since UCI, WADA etc bought the bullshit explaination; I was paying for training programs. YEAH RIGHT - most idiotic explaination ever and he wasnt even charged.
1. Meh, maybe
2. As opposed to his 5 taken off already, and the very leniate ban.
3. Yeah, this is cycling. It's banned, end of.
4. So you (and others) say. I call it justice however, he did something against the rules and got punished. Fair?
5. Army missing didn't do last years tour any harm. Or this years TDU actually, which despite Armstrong not being there INCREASED in popularity.
6. Except the clenbuterol thing...
7. Yeah, it's a dumb system. He should be punished, but won't.
Since you are an administrator of the site i suppose you have followed cycling for more than a decade just like me. I hournestly dont believe that he is more doped than the rest of top 5. It is very naive to think that the top 5 now is "clean" just because they havent been tested positive. How come it be that the top 5 GT riders in the world are driving faster on the mountains than armstrong ever did ? Armstrong and his era was a doping era, almost everyone around him has been tested positive. Hes biggest rivals was all excluded for diff. doping cases. So if the TDF king armstrong who was so immortal in the TDF, was pure, but everyone around him wasnt, and now all todays generation are driving EVEN FASTER than these guys, should be "clean/pure"? Its a very naive thought.
I love cycling, i wouldnt mind if doping was legal to a certain level, so we could stop KILLING our beloved sport.
Contador is without doubt the biggest asset Cycling has ATM.
i think this would really kill your beloved sport!!! |
| |
|
|
| Ybodonk |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:27
|
Domestique
Posts: 510
Joined: 24-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
CrueTrue wrote:
The rest of the top-5 might be as bad as Contador, but why would that exclude Contador from being banned? He got caught - one more doper is down. Be happy about that.
If you think Schleck and co. are doped too, well, let's hope they are caught eventually.
Well i dont hope they get caught. We all want to see the biggest stars fight against each other. If Top 5 all was caught at once, and all the stars was excluded, how many sponsors and TV would show, advertise and post money into the sport?
The sport is brilliant, but every sport needs its heroes.
Who wanna see another Oscar pereiro tdf winner? None i suppose.
Cycling has lost so many big names since OP. Puerto. For everyone on them gone = cycling dying a little bit.
But lets see the development. Gonna route for P. Rolland or something like that.. |
| |
|
|
| lup_andrei |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:27
|
Stagiare
Posts: 156
Joined: 28-06-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Who will make points in the UWT for Saxo Bank? Nuyens seems the only one capable...normally they will relegate. |
| |
|
|
| roturn |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:27
|
Team Manager
Posts: 22246
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
|
siwi wrote:
You dont even know if he is a doper CAS cant prove it? They just think something and ban him.
Well. He had a positive. No matter the amount. So he obviously doped. It was up to Contador to explain it. And a Clenbuterol steak in Spain...bad excuse imo as there are good tests in Europe and all tests in Spain have been negative. Even the Spanish farmers were angry about this excuse. |
| |
|
|
| CrueTrue |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:27
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
siwi wrote:
You dont even know if he is a doper CAS cant prove it? They just think something and ban him.
He tested positive. That's not thinking, that's proof. |
| |
|
|
| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:30
|
Team Manager
Posts: 33046
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
On the one hand, Im glad that he has got the ban he deserves.
On the other hand, after having gone on so long, a backdated ban really takes the piss. Contador ends up only being banned for 6 months, and while Schleck can pretend to be a TDF winner, and Scarponi can pretend to be a Giro winner, we all know who really won those races.
Let the fanboys be fanboys. If the ranking points of returning dopers dont count towards the WorldTour team rankings anymore, then Riis is going to need a big signing for 2013 to keep that status. No wonder a lot of people from Denmark are protesting Contador's innocence The irony being that it means Andy Schleck is the 'winner' of the 2010 Tour, when he rode for ... Saxo Bank!
Edited by SportingNonsense on 06-02-2012 13:30
|
| |
|
|
| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:30
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
Joined: 19-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ybodonk wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
The rest of the top-5 might be as bad as Contador, but why would that exclude Contador from being banned? He got caught - one more doper is down. Be happy about that.
If you think Schleck and co. are doped too, well, let's hope they are caught eventually.
Well i dont hope they get caught. We all want to see the biggest stars fight against each other. If Top 5 all was caught at once, and all the stars was excluded, how many sponsors and TV would show, advertise and post money into the sport?
The sport is brilliant, but every sport needs its heroes.
Who wanna see another Oscar pereiro tdf winner? None i suppose.
Cycling has lost so many big names since OP. Puerto. For everyone on them gone = cycling dying a little bit.
But lets see the development. Gonna route for P. Rolland or something like that..
So what you want is people to just let the cheating go on, endangering everyone's (especially young riders' health, leading to the same spate of deaths seen in the 90s and to completely lose our sport to doping. Even just looking at it commercially, going backwards is not an option. At all.
|
| |
|
|
| kida |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:31
|
Domestique
Posts: 405
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
CrueTrue wrote:
But he IS guilty. CAS just said so.
Also, there's a major difference between doping and using a helmet that may or may not have been illegal (and if it was illegal, UCI had 200 km of racing + several hours before the race to tell Cavendish that he had to use another helmet).
According to CAS, he isn't. You're entitled to think he's a cheat(I think he is too), but so far CAS isn't saying that. |
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:32
|
World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
kida wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
But he IS guilty. CAS just said so.
Also, there's a major difference between doping and using a helmet that may or may not have been illegal (and if it was illegal, UCI had 200 km of racing + several hours before the race to tell Cavendish that he had to use another helmet).
According to CAS, he isn't. You're entitled to think he's a cheat(I think he is too), but so far CAS isn't saying that.
True, i have just read the last 10 pages carefully.
|
| |
|
|
| siwi |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:33
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1148
Joined: 02-11-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
CrueTrue wrote:
siwi wrote:
You dont even know if he is a doper CAS cant prove it? They just think something and ban him.
He tested positive. That's not thinking, that's proof.
Yeah i know, but he can still be innocent  just look at Philip Nielsen for an example |
| |
|
|
| Bosskardo |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:33
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1559
Joined: 07-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
siwi wrote:
You dont even know if he is a doper CAS cant prove it? They just think something and ban him.
Thats irrelevant. They can't make a precedence so soon some riders "aaccidentally" eat EPO contaminated meat.
The rules have to be strict to avoid getting off with stupid technicalities, you should get a ban even if you digested the substance involuntarily.
I'll give you one thing: 2 years is a bit much. I would've given him 1 year if it wasn't Contador because I know I hate his ass. Its only natural that his ass-lickers want him cleared but try to think of your reaction if it was someone else.
|
| |
|
|
| Ybodonk |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:35
|
Domestique
Posts: 510
Joined: 24-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
johannes you do know that many experts and powerfull people in cycling has discussed this opportunity before?
Why is a sport popular? Because spectating the unlikeable, experiencing things that we all just could dream of is what drag people to sports and create heroes.
You could kill all the stars and let all the waterboys win the TDF.
Excluding Contador is as big as excluding Messi .
You wanna see a nice show, a nice fight, a good match, experience some epicness that is what sport is for.
The whole world sadly think of cycling as pure doping. But Fuentes himself said that the soccer and athletic world would be shocked if they knew who was doped and who he had as clients.. All this is ofc. closed cold cases..
Buttom line is, for the love of cycling, TDF, epic battles and good cycling television i think we lost the biggest creator,attacker and entertainer.
I really hope that a guy like Rolland wins.. Would make me so satisfied not the see the schlecks or Evans win.. |
| |
|
|
| Ybodonk |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:39
|
Domestique
Posts: 510
Joined: 24-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Ybodonk wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
The rest of the top-5 might be as bad as Contador, but why would that exclude Contador from being banned? He got caught - one more doper is down. Be happy about that.
If you think Schleck and co. are doped too, well, let's hope they are caught eventually.
Well i dont hope they get caught. We all want to see the biggest stars fight against each other. If Top 5 all was caught at once, and all the stars was excluded, how many sponsors and TV would show, advertise and post money into the sport?
The sport is brilliant, but every sport needs its heroes.
Who wanna see another Oscar pereiro tdf winner? None i suppose.
Cycling has lost so many big names since OP. Puerto. For everyone on them gone = cycling dying a little bit.
But lets see the development. Gonna route for P. Rolland or something like that..
So what you want is people to just let the cheating go on, endangering everyone's (especially young riders' health, leading to the same spate of deaths seen in the 90s and to completely lose our sport to doping. Even just looking at it commercially, going backwards is not an option. At all.
It should be legal to a certain level. Lets say all riders could dope themselves up to the hematocrit level of 56 . Then everyone is equal and "legal". Either everyone HAS to be CLEAN or everyone has to be EQUALLY doped, then we would have a fair race, and see who the best rider is. That is just the point, it should be fair and equal one way or the other.. |
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:43
|
World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
So anybody read the paragraph 512? "Athletes positive test for clenbuterol is more likely to have been caused by the ingestion of a contaminated food suplement than by a blood transfusion or the ingestion od contaminated meat"
So no doping in the true meaning of that word...
|
| |
|
|
| CrueTrue |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:45
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
"More likely" = CAS doesn't know and thus relies on the rules about strict liability.
He tested positive for a banned substance. Call it doping, call it witchhunt. Doesn't change the facts |
| |
|
|
| johannes-w |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:49
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 833
Joined: 24-04-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ybodonk wrote:
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Ybodonk wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
The rest of the top-5 might be as bad as Contador, but why would that exclude Contador from being banned? He got caught - one more doper is down. Be happy about that.
If you think Schleck and co. are doped too, well, let's hope they are caught eventually.
Well i dont hope they get caught. We all want to see the biggest stars fight against each other. If Top 5 all was caught at once, and all the stars was excluded, how many sponsors and TV would show, advertise and post money into the sport?
The sport is brilliant, but every sport needs its heroes.
Who wanna see another Oscar pereiro tdf winner? None i suppose.
Cycling has lost so many big names since OP. Puerto. For everyone on them gone = cycling dying a little bit.
But lets see the development. Gonna route for P. Rolland or something like that..
So what you want is people to just let the cheating go on, endangering everyone's (especially young riders' health, leading to the same spate of deaths seen in the 90s and to completely lose our sport to doping. Even just looking at it commercially, going backwards is not an option. At all.
It should be legal to a certain level. Lets say all riders could dope themselves up to the hematocrit level of 56 . Then everyone is equal and "legal". Either everyone HAS to be CLEAN or everyone has to be EQUALLY doped, then we would have a fair race, and see who the best rider is. That is just the point, it should be fair and equal one way or the other..
now that is just stupid - why should anyone take that risk of using dangerous drugs than??? just to make them 5 or 10 kmh faster than us freetime cyclists? |
| |
|
|
| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 06-02-2012 13:58
|
Team Manager
Posts: 33046
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
So anybody read the paragraph 512? "Athletes positive test for clenbuterol is more likely to have been caused by the ingestion of a contaminated food suplement than by a blood transfusion or the ingestion od contaminated meat"
So no doping in the true meaning of that word...
From Twitter:
the Inner Ring:
WADA and Spanish authorities traced Contador's steak back through the supply chain. No clenbuterol contamination detected.
|
| |
|
