Let's quote Nibbles from yesterday :
"I was climbing at 430 Watts, and then this guy (Horner) attacks at 500 Watts. What am I supposed to do ? I can't do 500 Watts."
Nin1388 wrote:
Nibali seems to have not got the climbing legs, he hoped to get in final week. I think this long climb will suit him better, but we will have to see. Horner is just too strong, but all it takes is small glitch.
Also it is sign of poor showing by Nibali. He won Giro but against weak field. Uran, Evans, and even Wiggins are not same level as Froome, Quintana, Contador. He and Astana wanted to send message to Sky, but are inturn doubting themselves.
Anyway, here is me hoping Nibali puts on good fight and difference is just 3 seconds. It can still swing either way
Strydz wrote:
I wouldn't say it was to weak of a field at the Giro compared to here, he peaked for the Giro and I honestly think this was a after thought. He wants a crack at the Worlds at home and that is the training program he was on which would explain his climbing at this race, also he could just be tired
The Giro field basically contained upcoming stars (many of them is of my liking). However compared to TDF or the Vuelta, the field was more weak.
And like I have been trying to argue against most people, Nibali is nowhere near a level where he can challenge Froome.
On the forum, the majority tend to create some kind of non-deserved hype. And im always against it. I dont know how many times i have seen people writing and expecting big things from Hesjedal and DeGendt after last years Giro, and I argue against. Its simply never gonna happen against the worlds elite..
Nibali is probably not on 100 percent, yet i dont believe a 100 percent Nibali, will finish on the podium next year if the TDF line up is similar to this year. Time will tell.
I hope Purito or Valverde try something spectacular to win the race! Hopefully Contador will "marginally gain" his way back to his former level so he and Quintana can challenge Froome.
Edited by Ybodonk on 14-09-2013 09:20
Aquarius wrote:
Let's quote Nibbles from yesterday :
"I was climbing at 430 Watts, and then this guy (Horner) attacks at 500 Watts. What am I supposed to do ? I can't do 500 Watts."
Nibali has actually provided several suspicious quotes against Horner.
Also something like "Horner dropped me, this guy is 42 im 28!" ..
Do I remember correctly, if I say Contadors attacks was something 800-900 watts ? I think we spoke about that once
Ybodonk please don't call for Contador to "marginally gain" his way back to tour contention
And for anyone saying Nibbles could not have finished on the podium had he just targeted the tour this year are talking rubbish, he is the 2nd best stage racer going around at the moment (Quintana is challenging) and if he had gone to the tour he would have finished 2nd. I still think he is on a Worlds program and with Horner going full Froome(retard) it is not a surprise he is getting dropped
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/
This is why horner Never showed really good results. In his best years of his career he was a helper. For Armstrong and for Otter guys, so he could never Race the Way he wanted, after Armstrong he was injured a lot and didnt eben race much.
This Vuelta is on of the First races, in which he is in form, fresh, not suffering from any injury and , probably most important, he is the leader.
Edited by StevenGreen on 14-09-2013 10:13
Strydz wrote:
Ybodonk please don't call for Contador to "marginally gain" his way back to tour contention
And for anyone saying Nibbles could not have finished on the podium had he just targeted the tour this year are talking rubbish, he is the 2nd best stage racer going around at the moment (Quintana is challenging) and if he had gone to the tour he would have finished 2nd. I still think he is on a Worlds program and with Horner going full Froome(retard) it is not a surprise he is getting dropped
I wanna see Contador up there competing for the win. He is the most entertaining rider to watch imo.
Why is it rubbish ? Who concluded he is the 2nd best stage racer going around. I dont agree, you have your opinion I have mine. The TDF 2012, the field was weaker, and he didnt stand a chance against Sky. 2012 was without Purito, Valverde getting closer to his former level, no Contador etc.
Nibali himself have said that his form (performance, power output etc) in the Giro 2013, was the same as the TDF 2012. Time and history has proven too many times, that because you do good in Giro/Vuelta, it does not equal a good TDF result. And especially not a TDF victory.
Quintana alone would kill Nibali in the mountains, and a Purito in his 3rd week form would do so too. Yes Nibali is a better TT'er. Last thing, both of Nibalis GT wins have been a bit cheap. Look at the damn line up, it speaks for itself.
Dont get me wrong, i have tons of respect for Nibali, and i do like him. But saying his the second best, no chance in hell
Aquarius wrote:
Let's quote Nibbles from yesterday :
"I was climbing at 430 Watts, and then this guy (Horner) attacks at 500 Watts. What am I supposed to do ? I can't do 500 Watts."
Nibali has actually provided several suspicious quotes against Horner.
Also something like "Horner dropped me, this guy is 42 im 28!" ..
Do I remember correctly, if I say Contadors attacks was something 800-900 watts ? I think we spoke about that once
800 or 900 ? He could sustain that for 20 or 30 seconds, something like that. No climber does that to climb a mountain.
His most impressive performance is Verbier in 2009, where he did (in normalised Watts) 490 W during 20'55" (actually 435 but he weighed 62).
That ascent included a bit at 550 W during 6 minutes (leaders group going full retard), then another 535 during 4'30 (when Contador attacked and made a gap).
I wanna see Contador up there competing for the win. He is the most entertaining rider to watch imo.
Why is it rubbish ? Who concluded he is the 2nd best stage racer going around. I dont agree, you have your opinion I have mine. The TDF 2012, the field was weaker, and he didnt stand a chance against Sky. 2012 was without Purito, Valverde getting closer to his former level, no Contador etc.
Nibali himself have said that his form (performance, power output etc) in the Giro 2013, was the same as the TDF 2012. Time and history has proven too many times, that because you do good in Giro/Vuelta, it does not equal a good TDF result. And especially not a TDF victory.
Quintana alone would kill Nibali in the mountains, and a Purito in his 3rd week form would do so too. Yes Nibali is a better TT'er. Last thing, both of Nibalis GT wins have been a bit cheap. Look at the damn line up, it speaks for itself.
Dont get me wrong, i have tons of respect for Nibali, and i do like him. But saying his the second best, no chance in hell
I disagree about Nibbles. He wouldn't have ben that far after the TTT.
Then he'd have finished somewhere near Porte on Ax-3. Nothing relevant happened the next day (one could argue he could have attacked on the descent). He'd have lost more time to Froome on the ITT, but gained some on all the other GC guys.
Let's assume he wouldn't have been caught in the wrong echelon.
He'd have lost time on the Ventoux, but how much ? Nieve was 3rd at 1'23, with all the other G.C. guys next to him. I'd say Nibbles could have been one minute down Froome.
The last ITT was quite favourable to Nibali (quite like the Giro one), but of course Froome would have been out of reach.
Alpe d'Huez : Froome sort of bonked, Contador lost some time too, it could have gone either way for Nibbles. Let's say he'd have lost some time to Quintana.
Only Semnoz's left. I can see him coming fourth or fifth there, not that far down.
Overall I think he'd have been second with a 1'00 or 1'30" gap on Quintana. And I can't think of any absent G.C. guy who'd have beat him with that road.
Aquarius wrote:
Let's quote Nibbles from yesterday :
"I was climbing at 430 Watts, and then this guy (Horner) attacks at 500 Watts. What am I supposed to do ? I can't do 500 Watts."
Nibali has actually provided several suspicious quotes against Horner.
Also something like "Horner dropped me, this guy is 42 im 28!" ..
Do I remember correctly, if I say Contadors attacks was something 800-900 watts ? I think we spoke about that once
800 or 900 ? He could sustain that for 20 or 30 seconds, something like that. No climber does that to climb a mountain.
His most impressive performance is Verbier in 2009, where he did (in normalised Watts) 490 W during 20'55" (actually 435 but he weighed 62).
That ascent included a bit at 550 W during 6 minutes (leaders group going full retard), then another 535 during 4'30 (when Contador attacked and made a gap).
I think you might misunderstood me. I know that 420w+ average in 20min+ on the final climb is a very high number. , I was simply referring to the actual attack measured in watts. Your quote from Nibali "Im climbing at 430 watts, Horner then attacks with 500 watts, I cant do 500watts" .
Since Horners attack look as powerfull as Contadors, I was trying to point out the power difference in the actual attack measured in watts. For a minute it sounded like Nibali couldnt respond to an attack at 500 watts, with is ridicilous. Nibali himself is maybe at 700w+ when he attacks.
Nibali most have meant that Horner was averaging 500 watts for a while, without being able to keep up with that. It probably wasnt the actual attack he meant.
Edited by Ybodonk on 14-09-2013 11:28
I wanna see Contador up there competing for the win. He is the most entertaining rider to watch imo.
Why is it rubbish ? Who concluded he is the 2nd best stage racer going around. I dont agree, you have your opinion I have mine. The TDF 2012, the field was weaker, and he didnt stand a chance against Sky. 2012 was without Purito, Valverde getting closer to his former level, no Contador etc.
Nibali himself have said that his form (performance, power output etc) in the Giro 2013, was the same as the TDF 2012. Time and history has proven too many times, that because you do good in Giro/Vuelta, it does not equal a good TDF result. And especially not a TDF victory.
Quintana alone would kill Nibali in the mountains, and a Purito in his 3rd week form would do so too. Yes Nibali is a better TT'er. Last thing, both of Nibalis GT wins have been a bit cheap. Look at the damn line up, it speaks for itself.
Dont get me wrong, i have tons of respect for Nibali, and i do like him. But saying his the second best, no chance in hell
I disagree about Nibbles. He wouldn't have ben that far after the TTT.
Then he'd have finished somewhere near Porte on Ax-3. Nothing relevant happened the next day (one could argue he could have attacked on the descent). He'd have lost more time to Froome on the ITT, but gained some on all the other GC guys.
Let's assume he wouldn't have been caught in the wrong echelon.
He'd have lost time on the Ventoux, but how much ? Nieve was 3rd at 1'23, with all the other G.C. guys next to him. I'd say Nibbles could have been one minute down Froome.
The last ITT was quite favourable to Nibali (quite like the Giro one), but of course Froome would have been out of reach.
Alpe d'Huez : Froome sort of bonked, Contador lost some time too, it could have gone either way for Nibbles. Let's say he'd have lost some time to Quintana.
Only Semnoz's left. I can see him coming fourth or fifth there, not that far down.
Overall I think he'd have been second with a 1'00 or 1'30" gap on Quintana. And I can't think of any absent G.C. guy who'd have beat him with that road.
Well its only healthy we are disagreeing And you could might be right, but for me Nibali is overhyped. It happens every year on the forum, whenever a guy wins a GT he is the biggest challenger to the dominant force (in this case Froome) . The thing is I was impressed at Nibali last year in TDF. For me that was his greatest GT performance.
There where a lot of tough competition. His third place here was more impressive than his other two GT wins, for me atleast. Like i said earlier, i think both of the victories was a bit cheap. That TDF was the only time Nibali did good against toughest competition, in the biggest race with everyone being in their superior form (Froome and Wiggins, despite loosing heavily to them) .
I will not count in early-season races and tours, and you know why.
I would bet a lot on him not finishing infront of Quintana. I dont see that happening, especially not when Quintana will be the only captain.
We now for a fact that next year most of the GC riders, will have TDF as the main goal for the season.
A battle between : Froome, Contador, Quintana, Rodriguez, Valverde, Nibali and perhaps Andy Schleck next years TDF will reveal Nibalis true strenght vs the absolute elite.
Before I have seem him beating the spanish/columbian armada, I will not have him at the second best GT rider. But lets see next year
Edited by Ybodonk on 14-09-2013 11:30
For the sake of being a bit nostalgic, and for those too young to have enjoyed it back then : https://www.youtub...43mcA_lg64 Heras back in 2000. Amazing sprinting up at Angliru by Rubiera first and then Escartin. Heras himself was for me the most beautiful rider to watch up through a climb. His style was like dancing and flying up the mountains.
And in 2002 where he won the stage. It was very rainy, cars stopped, engines crashed, riders crashed. It was chaos but an epic win.
I wanna see Contador up there competing for the win. He is the most entertaining rider to watch imo.
Why is it rubbish ? Who concluded he is the 2nd best stage racer going around. I dont agree, you have your opinion I have mine. The TDF 2012, the field was weaker, and he didnt stand a chance against Sky. 2012 was without Purito, Valverde getting closer to his former level, no Contador etc.
Nibali himself have said that his form (performance, power output etc) in the Giro 2013, was the same as the TDF 2012. Time and history has proven too many times, that because you do good in Giro/Vuelta, it does not equal a good TDF result. And especially not a TDF victory.
Quintana alone would kill Nibali in the mountains, and a Purito in his 3rd week form would do so too. Yes Nibali is a better TT'er. Last thing, both of Nibalis GT wins have been a bit cheap. Look at the damn line up, it speaks for itself.
Dont get me wrong, i have tons of respect for Nibali, and i do like him. But saying his the second best, no chance in hell
I disagree about Nibbles. He wouldn't have ben that far after the TTT.
Then he'd have finished somewhere near Porte on Ax-3. Nothing relevant happened the next day (one could argue he could have attacked on the descent). He'd have lost more time to Froome on the ITT, but gained some on all the other GC guys.
Let's assume he wouldn't have been caught in the wrong echelon.
He'd have lost time on the Ventoux, but how much ? Nieve was 3rd at 1'23, with all the other G.C. guys next to him. I'd say Nibbles could have been one minute down Froome.
The last ITT was quite favourable to Nibali (quite like the Giro one), but of course Froome would have been out of reach.
Alpe d'Huez : Froome sort of bonked, Contador lost some time too, it could have gone either way for Nibbles. Let's say he'd have lost some time to Quintana.
Only Semnoz's left. I can see him coming fourth or fifth there, not that far down.
Overall I think he'd have been second with a 1'00 or 1'30" gap on Quintana. And I can't think of any absent G.C. guy who'd have beat him with that road.
Well its only healthy we are disagreeing And you could might be right, but for me Nibali is overhyped. It happens every year on the forum, whenever a guy wins a GT he is the biggest challenger to the dominant force (in this case Froome) . The thing is I was impressed at Nibali last year in TDF. For me that was his greatest GT performance.
There where a lot of tough competition. His third place here was more impressive than his other two GT wins, for me atleast. Like i said earlier, i think both of the victories was a bit cheap. That TDF was the only time Nibali did good against toughest competition, in the biggest race with everyone being in their superior form (Froome and Wiggins, despite loosing heavily to them) .
I will not count in early-season races and tours, and you know why.
I would bet a lot on him not finishing infront of Quintana. I dont see that happening, especially not when Quintana will be the only captain.
We now for a fact that next year most of the GC riders, will have TDF as the main goal for the season.
A battle between : Froome, Contador, Quintana, Rodriguez, Valverde, Nibali and perhaps Andy Schleck next years TDF will reveal Nibalis true strenght vs the absolute elite.
Before I have seem him beating the spanish/columbian armada, I will not have him at the second best GT rider. But lets see next year
I agree with Aquarius here. Nibali may not be in the top 3 climbers, but with his TT he is surely more complete stage racer compared to Quintana, Purito etc. And considering TDF usually features more TT kilometers, he is easily the 2nd best stage racer at the moment (don't know what Porte is capable of though). With spanish climbers soon declining, it's only Quintana to challenge Nibali for second.
I wanna see Contador up there competing for the win. He is the most entertaining rider to watch imo.
Why is it rubbish ? Who concluded he is the 2nd best stage racer going around. I dont agree, you have your opinion I have mine. The TDF 2012, the field was weaker, and he didnt stand a chance against Sky. 2012 was without Purito, Valverde getting closer to his former level, no Contador etc.
Nibali himself have said that his form (performance, power output etc) in the Giro 2013, was the same as the TDF 2012. Time and history has proven too many times, that because you do good in Giro/Vuelta, it does not equal a good TDF result. And especially not a TDF victory.
Quintana alone would kill Nibali in the mountains, and a Purito in his 3rd week form would do so too. Yes Nibali is a better TT'er. Last thing, both of Nibalis GT wins have been a bit cheap. Look at the damn line up, it speaks for itself.
Dont get me wrong, i have tons of respect for Nibali, and i do like him. But saying his the second best, no chance in hell
I disagree about Nibbles. He wouldn't have ben that far after the TTT.
Then he'd have finished somewhere near Porte on Ax-3. Nothing relevant happened the next day (one could argue he could have attacked on the descent). He'd have lost more time to Froome on the ITT, but gained some on all the other GC guys.
Let's assume he wouldn't have been caught in the wrong echelon.
He'd have lost time on the Ventoux, but how much ? Nieve was 3rd at 1'23, with all the other G.C. guys next to him. I'd say Nibbles could have been one minute down Froome.
The last ITT was quite favourable to Nibali (quite like the Giro one), but of course Froome would have been out of reach.
Alpe d'Huez : Froome sort of bonked, Contador lost some time too, it could have gone either way for Nibbles. Let's say he'd have lost some time to Quintana.
Only Semnoz's left. I can see him coming fourth or fifth there, not that far down.
Overall I think he'd have been second with a 1'00 or 1'30" gap on Quintana. And I can't think of any absent G.C. guy who'd have beat him with that road.
Well its only healthy we are disagreeing And you could might be right, but for me Nibali is overhyped. It happens every year on the forum, whenever a guy wins a GT he is the biggest challenger to the dominant force (in this case Froome) . The thing is I was impressed at Nibali last year in TDF. For me that was his greatest GT performance.
There where a lot of tough competition. His third place here was more impressive than his other two GT wins, for me atleast. Like i said earlier, i think both of the victories was a bit cheap. That TDF was the only time Nibali did good against toughest competition, in the biggest race with everyone being in their superior form (Froome and Wiggins, despite loosing heavily to them) .
I will not count in early-season races and tours, and you know why.
I would bet a lot on him not finishing infront of Quintana. I dont see that happening, especially not when Quintana will be the only captain.
We now for a fact that next year most of the GC riders, will have TDF as the main goal for the season.
A battle between : Froome, Contador, Quintana, Rodriguez, Valverde, Nibali and perhaps Andy Schleck next years TDF will reveal Nibalis true strenght vs the absolute elite.
Before I have seem him beating the spanish/columbian armada, I will not have him at the second best GT rider. But lets see next year
I agree with Aquarius here. Nibali may not be in the top 3 climbers, but with his TT he is surely more complete stage racer compared to Quintana, Purito etc. And considering TDF usually features more TT kilometers, he is easily the 2nd best stage racer at the moment (don't know what Porte is capable of though). With spanish climbers soon declining, it's only Quintana to challenge Nibali for second.
Like i said, its healthy we disagreeing. But as with the ease you say Nibali is the second best stage racer during to his TT capabilities. I will with the same ease say he is not. And Nibali is not the TT rider he used to be considered as. I'd say him Contador and Valverde are pretty equal in TT's based on this season.
I wanna see Contador up there competing for the win. He is the most entertaining rider to watch imo.
Why is it rubbish ? Who concluded he is the 2nd best stage racer going around. I dont agree, you have your opinion I have mine. The TDF 2012, the field was weaker, and he didnt stand a chance against Sky. 2012 was without Purito, Valverde getting closer to his former level, no Contador etc.
Nibali himself have said that his form (performance, power output etc) in the Giro 2013, was the same as the TDF 2012. Time and history has proven too many times, that because you do good in Giro/Vuelta, it does not equal a good TDF result. And especially not a TDF victory.
Quintana alone would kill Nibali in the mountains, and a Purito in his 3rd week form would do so too. Yes Nibali is a better TT'er. Last thing, both of Nibalis GT wins have been a bit cheap. Look at the damn line up, it speaks for itself.
Dont get me wrong, i have tons of respect for Nibali, and i do like him. But saying his the second best, no chance in hell
I disagree about Nibbles. He wouldn't have ben that far after the TTT.
Then he'd have finished somewhere near Porte on Ax-3. Nothing relevant happened the next day (one could argue he could have attacked on the descent). He'd have lost more time to Froome on the ITT, but gained some on all the other GC guys.
Let's assume he wouldn't have been caught in the wrong echelon.
He'd have lost time on the Ventoux, but how much ? Nieve was 3rd at 1'23, with all the other G.C. guys next to him. I'd say Nibbles could have been one minute down Froome.
The last ITT was quite favourable to Nibali (quite like the Giro one), but of course Froome would have been out of reach.
Alpe d'Huez : Froome sort of bonked, Contador lost some time too, it could have gone either way for Nibbles. Let's say he'd have lost some time to Quintana.
Only Semnoz's left. I can see him coming fourth or fifth there, not that far down.
Overall I think he'd have been second with a 1'00 or 1'30" gap on Quintana. And I can't think of any absent G.C. guy who'd have beat him with that road.
Well its only healthy we are disagreeing And you could might be right, but for me Nibali is overhyped. It happens every year on the forum, whenever a guy wins a GT he is the biggest challenger to the dominant force (in this case Froome) . The thing is I was impressed at Nibali last year in TDF. For me that was his greatest GT performance.
There where a lot of tough competition. His third place here was more impressive than his other two GT wins, for me atleast. Like i said earlier, i think both of the victories was a bit cheap. That TDF was the only time Nibali did good against toughest competition, in the biggest race with everyone being in their superior form (Froome and Wiggins, despite loosing heavily to them) .
I will not count in early-season races and tours, and you know why.
I would bet a lot on him not finishing infront of Quintana. I dont see that happening, especially not when Quintana will be the only captain.
We now for a fact that next year most of the GC riders, will have TDF as the main goal for the season.
A battle between : Froome, Contador, Quintana, Rodriguez, Valverde, Nibali and perhaps Andy Schleck next years TDF will reveal Nibalis true strenght vs the absolute elite.
Before I have seem him beating the spanish/columbian armada, I will not have him at the second best GT rider. But lets see next year
I agree with Aquarius here. Nibali may not be in the top 3 climbers, but with his TT he is surely more complete stage racer compared to Quintana, Purito etc. And considering TDF usually features more TT kilometers, he is easily the 2nd best stage racer at the moment (don't know what Porte is capable of though). With spanish climbers soon declining, it's only Quintana to challenge Nibali for second.
Like i said, its healthy we disagreeing. But as with the ease you say Nibali is the second best stage racer during to his TT capabilities. I will with the same ease say he is not. And Nibali is not the TT rider he used to be considered as. I'd say him Contador and Valverde are pretty equal in TT's based on this season.
I think Nibali and Quintana are pretty even. Nibali is the only one who has beaten Froome in a stage race this year, though...
I wanna see Contador up there competing for the win. He is the most entertaining rider to watch imo.
Why is it rubbish ? Who concluded he is the 2nd best stage racer going around. I dont agree, you have your opinion I have mine. The TDF 2012, the field was weaker, and he didnt stand a chance against Sky. 2012 was without Purito, Valverde getting closer to his former level, no Contador etc.
Nibali himself have said that his form (performance, power output etc) in the Giro 2013, was the same as the TDF 2012. Time and history has proven too many times, that because you do good in Giro/Vuelta, it does not equal a good TDF result. And especially not a TDF victory.
Quintana alone would kill Nibali in the mountains, and a Purito in his 3rd week form would do so too. Yes Nibali is a better TT'er. Last thing, both of Nibalis GT wins have been a bit cheap. Look at the damn line up, it speaks for itself.
Dont get me wrong, i have tons of respect for Nibali, and i do like him. But saying his the second best, no chance in hell
I disagree about Nibbles. He wouldn't have ben that far after the TTT.
Then he'd have finished somewhere near Porte on Ax-3. Nothing relevant happened the next day (one could argue he could have attacked on the descent). He'd have lost more time to Froome on the ITT, but gained some on all the other GC guys.
Let's assume he wouldn't have been caught in the wrong echelon.
He'd have lost time on the Ventoux, but how much ? Nieve was 3rd at 1'23, with all the other G.C. guys next to him. I'd say Nibbles could have been one minute down Froome.
The last ITT was quite favourable to Nibali (quite like the Giro one), but of course Froome would have been out of reach.
Alpe d'Huez : Froome sort of bonked, Contador lost some time too, it could have gone either way for Nibbles. Let's say he'd have lost some time to Quintana.
Only Semnoz's left. I can see him coming fourth or fifth there, not that far down.
Overall I think he'd have been second with a 1'00 or 1'30" gap on Quintana. And I can't think of any absent G.C. guy who'd have beat him with that road.
Well its only healthy we are disagreeing And you could might be right, but for me Nibali is overhyped. It happens every year on the forum, whenever a guy wins a GT he is the biggest challenger to the dominant force (in this case Froome) . The thing is I was impressed at Nibali last year in TDF. For me that was his greatest GT performance.
There where a lot of tough competition. His third place here was more impressive than his other two GT wins, for me atleast. Like i said earlier, i think both of the victories was a bit cheap. That TDF was the only time Nibali did good against toughest competition, in the biggest race with everyone being in their superior form (Froome and Wiggins, despite loosing heavily to them) .
I will not count in early-season races and tours, and you know why.
I would bet a lot on him not finishing infront of Quintana. I dont see that happening, especially not when Quintana will be the only captain.
We now for a fact that next year most of the GC riders, will have TDF as the main goal for the season.
A battle between : Froome, Contador, Quintana, Rodriguez, Valverde, Nibali and perhaps Andy Schleck next years TDF will reveal Nibalis true strenght vs the absolute elite.
Before I have seem him beating the spanish/columbian armada, I will not have him at the second best GT rider. But lets see next year
I agree with Aquarius here. Nibali may not be in the top 3 climbers, but with his TT he is surely more complete stage racer compared to Quintana, Purito etc. And considering TDF usually features more TT kilometers, he is easily the 2nd best stage racer at the moment (don't know what Porte is capable of though). With spanish climbers soon declining, it's only Quintana to challenge Nibali for second.
Like i said, its healthy we disagreeing. But as with the ease you say Nibali is the second best stage racer during to his TT capabilities. I will with the same ease say he is not. And Nibali is not the TT rider he used to be considered as. I'd say him Contador and Valverde are pretty equal in TT's based on this season.
I think Nibali and Quintana are pretty even. Nibali is the only one who has beaten Froome in a stage race this year, though...
True, but like I said earlier, early season races doesnt really count for me. So many factors involved, the biggest being nobody from the elite is at their max/100 % top form.
Next years TDF will give us many answers. The only thing, imo obviously, speaking against me, is if Nibali has an unreached potential which i tend not to believe. I will eat my words if I see Nibali perform as the second best against the elite in TDF next year.
cactus-jack wrote:
I honestly can't decide wether this Vuelta proves cycling is clean or doped...
It proves (for me) that getting a contract for next season by any means possible is the where we are at
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/
Think this Vuelta shows the difference between drugs and not taking them. Horner's performances are so unnatural that others like Nibali and co (who could well be on drugs) look 2nd rate.
And you could might be right, but for me Nibali is overhyped. It happens every year on the forum, whenever a guy wins a GT he is the biggest challenger to the dominant force (in this case Froome) . The thing is I was impressed at Nibali last year in TDF. For me that was his greatest GT performance. 
And you could might be right, but for me Nibali is overhyped. It happens every year on the forum, whenever a guy wins a GT he is the biggest challenger to the dominant force (in this case Froome) . The thing is I was impressed at Nibali last year in TDF. For me that was his greatest GT performance. 
