Stromeon wrote:
I was looking back at the pre-Vuelta thread ('What to expect in the Vuelta' or something) to see what our opinions were of Horner before the Vuelta. And how many times do you think his name was mentioned in 24 pages of pre-race discussion?
Spoiler
ONCE
Yes, just once
Nice preview once again - should be the first stage I'll be able to watch live for a long time which is good. I hadn't noticed that beastly 1st category climb before the Angliru before, so they'll start the ascent with a fairly thinned out peloton I would have thought.
who was the genius that mentiomed him,good call whoever it was
Who do you think you are to judge horner. Do you have any proof that horner is benefitting from unallowed substances right now?? NO! (and i volunteerly repeat: doping is not something like: "oh my gosh, its so obvious horner doped, he just cant be that good,blablabla" He is fresh, nibali did the giro, valverde purito the tdf. and maybe he just got a really good training plan an dis in a really good form.
If you say horner is doped, then is say: Valverde, Purito etc are doped as well. You find just as much articles about them and doping.
So, either all of them are doped and horner is jsut a little more doped, or: They all are not doped and horner is just better in this vuelta, because of various reasons(form,freshness,training maybe).
If you are always thinking about who might be doped and who not, you cant enjoy cycling.
So, unless they are caught, thy must be considered clean!
StevenGreen wrote:
Again, for all you horner haters:
Who do you think you are to judge horner. Do you have any proof that horner is benefitting from unallowed substances right now?? NO! (and i volunteerly repeat: doping is not something like: "oh my gosh, its so obvious horner doped, he just cant be that good,blablabla" He is fresh, nibali did the giro, valverde purito the tdf. and maybe he just got a really good training plan an dis in a really good form.
If you say horner is doped, then is say: Valverde, Purito etc are doped as well. You find just as much articles about them and doping.
So, either all of them are doped and horner is jsut a little more doped, or: They all are not doped and horner is just better in this vuelta, because of various reasons(form,freshness,training maybe).
If you are always thinking about who might be doped and who not, you cant enjoy cycling.
So, unless they are caught, thy must be considered clean!
He has never finished on any GT podium nor has been close to it. And suddenly at age of 42 he finds form of his life and is best climber and beating guys like Nibali/Purito/Valverde.
And his motive is getting contract for next year and his meds worked too effectively.
He is a cheat who raced with Armstrong, knew everything about him and just kept quite. You can see from Johan Bruneels tweet how close they are. Horner is a cheat and will be caught eventually.
You cant say same about new class of clean athletes who have never been implicated in any doping scandals like Evans, Nibali, Wiggins, Froome.
StevenGreen wrote:
Again, for all you horner haters:
Who do you think you are to judge horner. Do you have any proof that horner is benefitting from unallowed substances right now?? NO! (and i volunteerly repeat: doping is not something like: "oh my gosh, its so obvious horner doped, he just cant be that good,blablabla" He is fresh, nibali did the giro, valverde purito the tdf. and maybe he just got a really good training plan an dis in a really good form.
If you say horner is doped, then is say: Valverde, Purito etc are doped as well. You find just as much articles about them and doping.
So, either all of them are doped and horner is jsut a little more doped, or: They all are not doped and horner is just better in this vuelta, because of various reasons(form,freshness,training maybe).
If you are always thinking about who might be doped and who not, you cant enjoy cycling.
So, unless they are caught, thy must be considered clean!
StevenGreen wrote:
Again, for all you horner haters:
Who do you think you are to judge horner. Do you have any proof that horner is benefitting from unallowed substances right now?? NO! (and i volunteerly repeat: doping is not something like: "oh my gosh, its so obvious horner doped, he just cant be that good,blablabla" He is fresh, nibali did the giro, valverde purito the tdf. and maybe he just got a really good training plan an dis in a really good form.
If you say horner is doped, then is say: Valverde, Purito etc are doped as well. You find just as much articles about them and doping.
So, either all of them are doped and horner is jsut a little more doped, or: They all are not doped and horner is just better in this vuelta, because of various reasons(form,freshness,training maybe).
If you are always thinking about who might be doped and who not, you cant enjoy cycling.
So, unless they are caught, thy must be considered clean!
He has never finished on any GT podium nor has been close to it.
This. His best result was 9th in the Tour, when he was 3 years younger than now! He should be declining by now, and we can't even say, that he is winning against a weak field... He is just not believable.
And yes, nobody says Valverde (Operation Puerto, etc...) and the others are clean.
StevenGreen wrote:
Again, for all you horner haters:
Who do you think you are to judge horner. Do you have any proof that horner is benefitting from unallowed substances right now?? NO! (and i volunteerly repeat: doping is not something like: "oh my gosh, its so obvious horner doped, he just cant be that good,blablabla" He is fresh, nibali did the giro, valverde purito the tdf. and maybe he just got a really good training plan an dis in a really good form.
If you say horner is doped, then is say: Valverde, Purito etc are doped as well. You find just as much articles about them and doping.
So, either all of them are doped and horner is jsut a little more doped, or: They all are not doped and horner is just better in this vuelta, because of various reasons(form,freshness,training maybe).
If you are always thinking about who might be doped and who not, you cant enjoy cycling.
So, unless they are caught, thy must be considered clean!
StevenGreen wrote:
Again, for all you horner haters:
Who do you think you are to judge horner. Do you have any proof that horner is benefitting from unallowed substances right now?? NO! (and i volunteerly repeat: doping is not something like: "oh my gosh, its so obvious horner doped, he just cant be that good,blablabla" He is fresh, nibali did the giro, valverde purito the tdf. and maybe he just got a really good training plan an dis in a really good form.
If you say horner is doped, then is say: Valverde, Purito etc are doped as well. You find just as much articles about them and doping.
So, either all of them are doped and horner is jsut a little more doped, or: They all are not doped and horner is just better in this vuelta, because of various reasons(form,freshness,training maybe).
If you are always thinking about who might be doped and who not, you cant enjoy cycling.
So, unless they are caught, thy must be considered clean!
Do you actually answer arguments when somebody answers to your forum posts or do you just come here and drop a message claiming we have no proof, that Horner is clean or that all his opponents are doped ?
Just wondering...
Plus, adding to all facts mentioned, Horner had so many freaking injuries in his long career... his performance in this Vuelta is just (too) insane. He's not Superman, but to be sure can someone please throw a Kryptonite rock at him tomorrow?
Horner is even more obvious than Sky. At least with Sky, people in the cycling world (riders, managers etc.) try to dodge the question or say they think they are clean. Meanwhile, Horner is called out publicly. And yet, there are still people who think he is innocent...
Nibali seems to have not got the climbing legs, he hoped to get in final week. I think this long climb will suit him better, but we will have to see. Horner is just too strong, but all it takes is small glitch.
Also it is sign of poor showing by Nibali. He won Giro but against weak field. Uran, Evans, and even Wiggins are not same level as Froome, Quintana, Contador. He and Astana wanted to send message to Sky, but are inturn doubting themselves.
Anyway, here is me hoping Nibali puts on good fight and difference is just 3 seconds. It can still swing either way
Edited by Nin1388 on 14-09-2013 05:20
Nin1388 wrote:
Nibali seems to have not got the climbing legs, he hoped to get in final week. I think this long climb will suit him better, but we will have to see. Horner is just too strong, but all it takes is small glitch.
Also it is sign of poor showing by Nibali. He won Giro but against weak field. Uran, Evans, and even Wiggins are not same level as Froome, Quintana, Contador. He and Astana wanted to send message to Sky, but are inturn doubting themselves.
Anyway, here is me hoping Nibali puts on good fight and difference is just 3 seconds. It can still swing either way
I wouldn't say it was to weak of a field at the Giro compared to here, he peaked for the Giro and I honestly think this was a after thought. He wants a crack at the Worlds at home and that is the training program he was on which would explain his climbing at this race, also he could just be tired
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Let's quote Nibbles from yesterday :
"I was climbing at 430 Watts, and then this guy (Horner) attacks at 500 Watts. What am I supposed to do ? I can't do 500 Watts."
He is fresh, nibali did the giro, valverde purito the tdf. and maybe he just got a really good training plan an dis in a really good form. 
