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PCM.daily DB Stats discussion
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 28-09-2013 13:19
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Tour de France Champion
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@Alak
Meh.
As a 6 potential guy in the Realname DB, he didn't develop good at all, and didn't get like 80MO + 80TT, but rather 77MO, 76TT or so in most of the careers I started and/or I've seen people starting.
Heck, the guy definitely showed potential on multiple areas, also definitely considered the biggest talent we have here in the Netherlands, also by experts... (At least the non-Junior biggest talent I guess  )
I really think he can win a GT someday, or be close. That'd probably not be Le Tour, but still. And that's not just because I'm a fanboy, though partly. And I can see guys like f.e Aru getting 7 potential nevertheless, though Aru isn't a bigger talent.
Yes, I'm disappointed, even though it's just a number, easily changeable, I'm a fanboy blablah, I know all the stuff...
I just want him to be good in careers of other persons as well 
Kelderman was a great domestique for Gesink in the Giro and could handle the pressure at the end when it was all about him, even went attacking from out the peloton on mountain stages two days in a row at a moment. Also, Romandië, where on the tough Queens stage, he didn't have trouble at all to stay with Valverde, Costa, V/D Broeck, Pinot etc, and even found energy to sprint in the end, getting the third guy in that group.
Also, he definitely proved himself in TTs as well, making him a complete stage-racer. Also, he's now even decent on (Eneco Tour) cobbles, he could've done better if he didn't have to protect Boom(who needs to get lower at HI ).
I guess he's 'nicknamed' Keldermerckx for a reason(even though I hate it when he gets called like that )
Also, he's even just 22. Of the guys under 23, only Démare has just a few more Pro Cycling Stats points, and we both know that Démare about always leads, while Kelderman is only a helper in the big races
In the U23 rankings, Kelderman was already considered one of the biggest talents of the world, and I'm convinced he could've won Avenir 2011 if he didn't get injured straight before. He could've beaten Chavez, I'm pretty certain
Also, I'm not sure where I read this, but I think it was at the start of the season, or the previous one, where Kelderman produced about the most Watts/kg of the team. But since I can't find the source, you might want to ignore this part.
Now, I don't care if guys come raging at me now, I will just disagree
/Rant over
Just wanted to place a short reaction, but my passion took it over right there
Anyway, I have to live with your decision, and that's ok.
Still, there's a little tiny bit hope left that I can convince you
@Jorge All the stats don't seem necassary to me.
Just look at guys with a similair level for the FL, energy stats etc. Most will be easy to give a reasonable number, maybe with some exceptions...
F.e Formolo isn't a great downhiler, and from these, only Simon Yates is a good/decent TTist(68), with Adam around 65. The others aren't good TTists. S.Yates has a great acceleration.(70/71?) Though I think most of these are actually added in the upcoming PCMdaily DB
Edited by Jesleyh on 28-09-2013 13:25
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 28-09-2013 13:24
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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Did you just write a Master's thesis on your love for Kelderman?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 28-09-2013 13:27
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Almost, more like a Master's thesis why Kelderman needs 7 potential 
Edit: It's just that my football match has been postponed, so I needed to get out the energy somehow
Edited by Jesleyh on 28-09-2013 13:28
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| The Hobbit |
Posted on 28-09-2013 15:03
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2730
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PCM$: 200.00
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I agree with Jesleyh! can see Kelderman doing well, maybe as one of the best GT riders, anyway he's just too awesome.
He never develops enough with current pot, I've never seen him get 80mountain but in real life I am sure he will be a contender in the coming years but if you look at some of the other guys with 7pot, Kelderman is better.
Go Wilco!!! |
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 28-09-2013 15:39
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I just want him to be good in careers of other persons as well
Aren't you taking this PCM thing too seriously, just a tiny bit? I mean... as you explained yourself, if you want Kelderman to be that super GT rider, you can easily change his potential yourself.
And btw fact that he had to work for Gesink doesn't automatically mean that he will perform better when given leader's role. Look at riders as Kiserlovski, Navarro.
Edited by I_Mayo on 28-09-2013 15:39
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 28-09-2013 15:40
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World Champion
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Given his current stats, 7 potential is too much for him. Especially since, as Alakagom said, it's still doubtful that he'll become a real star.
Wouldn't surprise me if he's already at or close to his peak level, like so many other Rabobank products.
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 28-09-2013 15:42
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Nah, I'm not taking PCM too seriously
In fact, I haven't played it for a while now 
And if you see it like that, this topic doesn't make sense at all, since everybody can change the things himself
But well, that he has to work for Gesink does mean that he will perform better normally. He had to wait for Gesink, losing 4 minutes, at some point, for example. Not to mention the fact that the energy he spent on Gesink, he could spent on his own classification.
@Pelli But Alakagom said that he includes 8 potential as well now, so I'd imagine that that means that more riders than in the last version have 6+/7+ potential, and if so, Kelderman deserves a place up as well, especially if guys with a similair stats level like Aru are up there... And Alakagom thinks Kelderman can easily grow to 80MO, 80TT on 6 potential, which isn't the case at all, normally
Also, it's doubtful for every talent if they're going to be stars. But does that mean that nobody gets high potential?
Edited by Jesleyh on 28-09-2013 15:47
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 29-09-2024 00:31
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 28-09-2013 15:46
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World Champion
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Aru is twice the talent Kelderman is, though
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 28-09-2013 15:48
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
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How do you know, it's still doubtful if he gets a real star
But why do you think so, actually?
Also, regarding the peak age, Kelderman started cycling later than usual, so I'd imagine he has a later peak age...
Edited by Jesleyh on 28-09-2013 15:58
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| atlanta |
Posted on 28-09-2013 21:20
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He may win 1 when he is 34 and Quintana Pinot Aru are 35 lol. Kelderman has not shown anything yet for me in WT ranks to even be considerd like PINOT, Quintana. Even before this mega year for Quintana he shown good stuff same with Pinot top 10 in Le TDF. They are the 2 real talents IMO. |
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| Selwink |
Posted on 28-09-2013 21:24
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Grand Tour Champion
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atlanta wrote:
He may win 1 when he is 34 and Quintana Pinot Aru are 35 lol. Kelderman has not shown anything yet for me in WT ranks to even be considerd like PINOT, Quintana. Even before this mega year for Quintana he shown good stuff same with Pinot top 10 in Le TDF. They are the 2 real talents IMO.
So? He could still win the Giro (or even Vuelta if they make a less ridiculous parcours), assuming both Pinot and Quintana aim on the Tour (which seems quite logical IMO)
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| atlanta |
Posted on 28-09-2013 21:25
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Kelderman i hope im wrong but i cant see it myself, i mean he is already 75/76 mnt in some DB when does he deserve that. I hope he does it just like i hope Gesink to think this guy was way better than Nibali and he was younger i dont care about the leg Rob show me results i miss Gesink being a 79 mnt guy that much that on most my carear's he and Andy are on 78 mnt to keep them competitive. |
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| Selwink |
Posted on 28-09-2013 21:28
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Grand Tour Champion
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Kelderman deserved that for being able to finish 8th in the Dauphine, 6th in TDU, top 10 in AToC, and for everything else Jesleyh just told on the first post of this page
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| atlanta |
Posted on 28-09-2013 21:28
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Selwink wrote:
atlanta wrote:
He may win 1 when he is 34 and Quintana Pinot Aru are 35 lol. Kelderman has not shown anything yet for me in WT ranks to even be considerd like PINOT, Quintana. Even before this mega year for Quintana he shown good stuff same with Pinot top 10 in Le TDF. They are the 2 real talents IMO.
So? He could still win the Giro (or even Vuelta if they make a less ridiculous parcours), assuming both Pinot and Quintana aim on the Tour (which seems quite logical IMO)
What youve seen so far you think Kelderman will be winning Giro's v Aru?. We all know through the history of the Giro as the riders go out i.e Basso someone replaces, which is probable Aru. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 28-09-2013 21:29
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18168
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You can just change potentials your selves guys. If its too low switch it up, if its too high switch it down. Frankly it does not matter one bit. So can we please let this go. It's going to turn into Gesink all over again, and i for one am sick to death of these dumb ass arguments where neither side ever seems to change
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| Selwink |
Posted on 28-09-2013 21:30
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Well, the Giro is also known for its time trials, where Kelderman should gain a huge lot of time on Aru. I'm not saying it's sure he'll win a GT, but if he keeps on developing like this, I think he's very likely to do though
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| atlanta |
Posted on 28-09-2013 21:31
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Selwink wrote:
Kelderman deserved that for being able to finish 8th in the Dauphine, 6th in TDU, top 10 in AToC, and for everything else Jesleyh just told on the first post of this page
Yes im fine with him having it but he is a ITT'er slash climber and the rest are better climbers. And apart from Wiggo of recent years most i think our better climbers than ITT'er, esp Giro Vuelta will mainly be won by climbers. Of course they can change parcours but i think Giro is balance enough and it still favours climbers. Vuelta is frankly silly route not balanced 1 bit. |
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| atlanta |
Posted on 28-09-2013 21:33
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Selwink wrote:
Well, the Giro is also known for its time trials, where Kelderman should gain a huge lot of time on Aru. I'm not saying it's sure he'll win a GT, but if he keeps on developing like this, I think he's very likely to do though
Yes next year i think will tell us alot, im not saying it tells us alot because he could have 1 or 2 okish years as he is still young, he is nowere near peak it would just be nice see some good climbing and riding on his own. But i really hope win for Gesink in canada gives his kick up da ass. |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 28-09-2013 21:35
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
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Well, the top guys get lower potential anyway, so Quintana won't be 7 or 8 potential. Neither Pinot, though tbh, I can't really see Pinot winning the Tour either.
And well, you can't say he didn't do anything in WT this year, he's 36th on the WT ranking.
Also, that year that's in between them can be very important.
I mean, look at the difference between Quintana '13 and '12.
I don't say Quintana wasn't good last year, he certainly was, but it shows how much of a difference 1 year could make(though thrre will be better examples than Quintana)
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| jph27 |
Posted on 28-09-2013 21:37
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Pinot is a better climber now than Kelderman will ever be. You may not like it but it is true. |
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