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Critérium du Dauphiné 2012 | 3rd - 10th June
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:02
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I think this Sky domination is all because they peaked too early for Dauphine thats all.
Remember Radioshack Domination at Tour of California 2011?
They failed so hard in the 2011 Tour. Mustly due to crashes but failed anyway.
I reckon Sky won't be able to do this at Tour especially with Cavendish in team and other teams in top form.
Dauphine is just a pre Tour race that no one takes too seriously (well apart from Wiggins). Over the years many riders won dauphine and then failed at Tour de France.
I mean Weening? Kiryenka? Really? They all(sky) were in top form thats why it looked so easy for them. If they do the same at the tour then you could start disbelieving Sky team. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:09
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Smal wrote:
Are you seriously comparing Wiggins to Armstrong? 
Armstrong won 7 TdF GCs in a row. The biggest race Wiggins has won is Paris-Nice and his closest competitor for that was Westra ffs. There's a bit of a difference. Armstrong was clearly doping,
I suggest you read my post again. I'm comparing your excuses to the excuses of Armstrong fans. It's quite obvious, if you read my post with care.
Smal wrote:
but just because a team is having a bit of success for six months they're doping? I suppose watching cycling can make you pessimistic, but your earlier post was obscene.
If my post really was obscene, you'd have posted arguments or facts against it. You didn't. Not even one.
So, if I mentioned facts, and you replied with no facts but just the word "obscene", who do you think is making a better case? Or rather, who do you think is the only person who actually has made a case?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:09
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Ian Butler wrote:
All this talk about Sky and doping... I don't know, I think being in a strong team makes a rider a bit stronger, if you know what I mean.
Though I believe Wiggins is quite talented and works hard, so I don't immediatly think about doping. Biggist win so far, like 'Smal' said, is Par-Nice.
He's a great TT and a decent climber. So I don't think it's impossible for him to fight for TDF win without doping.
With Dave Brailsford and Bradley Wiggins in the team there is no way that doping would ever be considered, they are and have always spoken out against doping  |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:10
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Kirchen_75 wrote:
I think this Sky domination is all because they peaked too early for Dauphine thats all.
Remember Radioshack Domination at Tour of California 2011?
They failed so hard in the 2011 Tour. Mustly due to crashes but failed anyway.
I reckon Sky won't be able to do this at Tour especially with Cavendish in team and other teams in top form.
Dauphine is just a pre Tour race that no one takes too seriously (well apart from Wiggins). Over the years many riders won dauphine and then failed at Tour de France.
I mean Weening? Kiryenka? Really? They all(sky) were in top form thats why it looked so easy for them. If they do the same at the tour then you could start disbelieving Sky team.
How do you even now they're in top shape ?  Do you have some source for being so 100% sure ?
Brailsford and Sutton are complete idiots and created training plans to peak every Team Sky GC contender for Dauphine...
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Posted on 25-11-2024 03:43
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| baggieboys32 |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:12
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The only thing for me that might suggest dope at Sky, would be the climbing performance of EBH on the Joux Plane, but even then... Look at the names, Porte, Froome, Rogers, Wiggins, This is a seriously strong squad here, hardly surprising that working together, they can dominate in the Mountains and TT's
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:17
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baggieboys32 wrote:
The only thing for me that might suggest dope at Sky, would be the climbing performance of EBH on the Joux Plane, but even then... Look at the names, Porte, Froome, Rogers, Wiggins, This is a seriously strong squad here, hardly surprising that working together, they can dominate in the Mountains and TT's
EBH was always a good climber.
As well as that Bob Stapleton, when he got EBH at HTC and did training with him said that EBH was future Tour winner ( said that at very early point though mind you  ) he never saw someone with that much talent and potential Obviously not going happen now as he went different route and as he said he kinda forced himself to be classic rider while he would be better climber. That's according to his former boss, and I kinda agree with that.
Edited by Alakagom on 09-06-2012 23:18
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:17
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At the end of the day it is just SKY JEALOUSY  |
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:23
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Okay, I must start by saying that I really don't have any deeper knowledge about training, physics or anything similar when it comes to cycling. But is it really that unlikely that a team, especially when obviously putting so much money in research etc., might develop certain (legal, of course) methods to increase their riders' skills? I would just guess that training and preparation methods haven't reached their maximum, so it appears possible (to me), that in this case Team Sky managed to optimize their processes to tease out the very best of their riders.
Then again, I don't know much about that stuff, and looking at the history of this sport, the thought of doping unfortunately suggests itself.
Oh, and by the way, @Alakagom: Selena Gomez, seriously?  That is quite a decline coming from Scarlett
Edited by cunego59 on 09-06-2012 23:26
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| kumazan |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:24
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lol the jealousy card being played so soon. I wonder if I'm in Daily or in the Marca forums.
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| Gulvplanke |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:24
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sutty68 wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
All this talk about Sky and doping... I don't know, I think being in a strong team makes a rider a bit stronger, if you know what I mean.
Though I believe Wiggins is quite talented and works hard, so I don't immediatly think about doping. Biggist win so far, like 'Smal' said, is Par-Nice.
He's a great TT and a decent climber. So I don't think it's impossible for him to fight for TDF win without doping.
With Dave Brailsford and Bradley Wiggins in the team there is no way that doping would ever be considered, they are and have always spoken out against doping
Pretty much all human beings are hypocrites to some degree. I doubt Brailsford and Wiggins are any different. I'm not saying Sky are doped, but someone being outspoken against doping doesn't really mean anything.
How hard can it be?
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:25
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Alakagom wrote:
As well as that Bob Stapleton, when he got EBH at HTC and did training with him said that EBH was future Tour winner ( said that at very early point though mind you ) he never saw someone with that much talent and potential Obviously not going happen now as he went different route and as he said he kinda forced himself to be classic rider while he would be better climber. That's according to his former boss, and I kinda agree with that.
Yeah, and the same is said about any very promising young rider. A lot of people said that about Boonen. And it was just as ridiculous.
You can try to go against a rider's natural talents all you want, but you're never going to succeed. If Hagen trained to be a climber he'd be a better climber but he wouldn't ever crack the top 10 at the Tour, much less come anywhere near winning it.
Dude, if someone I'd never heard of posted what you just did, my reply would simply be "what are you smoking?"
EDIT: I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but come on....Hagen would be a better climber than classics rider?
Edited by issoisso on 09-06-2012 23:33
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Gulvplanke |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:37
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issoisso wrote:
Alakagom wrote:
As well as that Bob Stapleton, when he got EBH at HTC and did training with him said that EBH was future Tour winner ( said that at very early point though mind you ) he never saw someone with that much talent and potential Obviously not going happen now as he went different route and as he said he kinda forced himself to be classic rider while he would be better climber. That's according to his former boss, and I kinda agree with that.
Yeah, and the same is said about any very promising young rider. A lot of people said that about Boonen. And it was just as ridiculous.
You can try to go against a rider's natural talents all you want, but you're never going to succeed. If Hagen trained to be a climber he'd be a better climber but he wouldn't ever crack the top 10 at the Tour, much less come anywhere near winning it.
Dude, if someone I'd never heard of posted what you just did, my reply would simply be "what are you smoking?"
EDIT: I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but come on....Hagen would be a better climber than classics rider?
Well he hasn't exaclty been shining in the classics...
How hard can it be?
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| Smal |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:37
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issoisso wrote:
If my post really was obscene, you'd have posted arguments or facts against it. You didn't. Not even one.
So, if I mentioned facts, and you replied with no facts but just the word "obscene", who do you think is making a better case? Or rather, who do you think is the only person who actually has made a case?
How can you even think to ask me to posts facts, when all you've posted is completely unfounded conjecture?
To my knowledge, no Sky rider has tested positive for drugs, and there's been no suggestion that they have done - there's a fact. They wouldn't even take one of the best British riders on their team (David Millar) because of his doping history |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:46
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Smal wrote:
How can you even think to ask me to posts facts, when all you've posted is completely unfounded conjecture?
Conjecture? Posting the results riders had and what's written on a WADA document is conjecture?
Do you even know what the word conjecture means?
If you say that was conjecture, then what you are in fact saying is that:
- Urán did not have the results I posted
- Henao did not have the results I posted
- Froome did not have the reuslts I posted
- Porte did not have the reuslts I posted
- Rogers was not listed in the WADA's blood passport listing as very suspicious
- Wiggins was not listed in the WADA's blood passport listing as a rider to be watched
- Tyler Hamilton did not do any of the things I mentioned
So, your justification for avoiding any rational logical argument and instead simply dismissing my post as "obscene" is that none of the above ever happened.
Smal wrote:
To my knowledge, no Sky rider has tested positive for drugs, and there's been no suggestion that they have done - there's a fact. They wouldn't even take one of the best British riders on their team (David Millar) because of his doping history
Yet they had Michael Barry, when his history with the Postal squad was well know. They signed Rogers even though Sinkewitz named him as one of the guys on EPO at QuickStep.
Edited by issoisso on 09-06-2012 23:49
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 09-06-2012 23:56
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Rogers also has Freiburg.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 10-06-2012 00:01
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mb2612 wrote:
Rogers also has Freiburg.
Ah yes, well remembered.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 10-06-2012 00:09
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Also, on the UCI blood doping panel, Knees, Suitsou, Hunt and Thomas were all classified as showing overwhelming evidence of doping.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| Crommy |
Posted on 10-06-2012 00:27
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mb2612 wrote:
Also, on the UCI blood doping panel, Knees, Suitsou, Hunt and Thomas were all classified as showing overwhelming evidence of doping.
Have you got a source for that (not disputing, just curious)?
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| issoisso |
Posted on 10-06-2012 00:53
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Crommy wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
Also, on the UCI blood doping panel, Knees, Suitsou, Hunt and Thomas were all classified as showing overwhelming evidence of doping.
Have you got a source for that (not disputing, just curious)?
The UCI's list of riders starting the 2010 Tour de France and each's blood passport rating, from 0 (definitely not doping) to 10 (definitely doping) was leaked, and listed the following riders in categories 6 to 10 ( "Overwhelming circumstancial evidence of Doping" )
6 Linus Gerdemann, Christian Knees, Egoi MartÃnez, Alessandro Petacchi, Francesco Reda, Mauro Santambrogio, Geraint Thomas
7 Jeremy Hunt, Andreas Klöden, Tony Martin, Christophe Moreau, Michael Rogers, Wesley Sulzberger
8 David De la Fuente, Ivan Gutiérrez, Danilo Hondo, Matthew Lloyd, Iban Mayoz, Dmitriy Muravyev, Rinaldo Nocentini, Daniel Oss, Kevin Seeldraeyers, Kanstantsin Siutsou, Jurgen Van Den Broeck
9 Denis Menchov
10 Carlos Barredo,Yaroslav Popovych
EDIT: Voeckler is a 0, so all is well with the world
Edited by issoisso on 10-06-2012 00:56
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| samdiatmh |
Posted on 10-06-2012 01:00
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interesting to note that the only one who was actually caught doping doesn't appear from 6-10 |
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