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Critérium du Dauphiné 2012 | 3rd - 10th June
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| jph27 |
Posted on 09-06-2012 18:15
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issoisso wrote:
1994 Gewiss/2004 Postal/2006 T-Mobile/2012 Sky?
Either way, it's painful to watch any team dominate like that. For more than one reason.
Yeah, although I'd like to believe this team is clean, or at least clean-er. But I doubt it, sadly. |
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| lennybernstein |
Posted on 09-06-2012 18:41
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jph27 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
1994 Gewiss/2004 Postal/2006 T-Mobile/2012 Sky?
Either way, it's painful to watch any team dominate like that. For more than one reason.
Yeah, although I'd like to believe this team is clean, or at least clean-er. But I doubt it, sadly.
Just because Sky have put in a strong team performance you're implying they are doped?
The management at Sky, especially Brailsford, and Wiggins himself have a strong anti-doping stance. I think a bigger difference is the quality of riders and amount of money, science and comprehensiveness that has gone into the team's preparations for the Tour.
As for those who say Sky are boring - they are just doing their job! It's how every team would ride if they could. For me the lack excitement was caused by the fact that the other riders - Evans, VandenBroeck, etc - didn't the balls or ability to attack, at least not until the climb was over. |
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| jph27 |
Posted on 09-06-2012 18:43
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lennybernstein wrote:
jph27 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
1994 Gewiss/2004 Postal/2006 T-Mobile/2012 Sky?
Either way, it's painful to watch any team dominate like that. For more than one reason.
Yeah, although I'd like to believe this team is clean, or at least clean-er. But I doubt it, sadly.
Just because Sky have put in a strong team performance you're implying they are doped?
The management at Sky, especially Brailsford, and Wiggins himself have a strong anti-doping stance. I think a bigger difference is the quality of riders and amount of money, science and comprehensiveness that has gone into the team's preparations for the Tour.
As for those who say Sky are boring - they are just doing their job! It's how every team would ride if they could. For me the lack excitement was caused by the fact that the other riders - Evans, VandenBroeck, etc - didn't the balls or ability to attack, at least not until the climb was over.
I'm pointing out that history generally shows that when something appears to good to be true, it generally is. And I want to see Sky do well, but the way Wiggins and Froome have burst through is slightly suspicious, that's all. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-06-2012 19:02
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Tour de France Champion
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lenny, all of Sky's GC guys are coming out of nowhere recently. I mean come on.
Urán is 35th in the Giro and 32 in the Vuelta, then the next year he joins Sky and he's sitting in the white jersey at the Tour and finishing top 5 in a major mountain stage before he gets sick
Froome has zero top 20s in mountain stages in many years of riding GTs. Then he nearly wins a GT?
Henao top 10 in his first GT? A stretch, but I'll buy it.
Porte's best mountain stage performance is "only" losing nearly 2 minutes on a stage that was ridden slowly until near the finish, and losing way more in every other one he's ever ridden....then he joins Sky and goes from that to pulling the peloton up the Joux-Plane dropping major contenders?
Rogers was listed on the blood passport list as "Very suspicious many remarks about the blood profile which seems to have a very irregular pattern".
And that's not even touching Wiggins' sudden massive improvement, or his blood passport being listed as "To be watched carefully"
I'm sorry, but that just doesn't fly. This isn't an isolated case that can happen once in a while, it's a sequence of case after case after case after case, always at the same team!
As for Wiggins and his grandma or whoever having being publicly against doping, we've already had this discussion with you last year at the Vuelta: That means nothing. Tyler Hamilton went as far as donating large parts of his salary to fund the anti-doping fight....and then he tested positive.
Then he came back....and tested positive again. Then he denied the whole thing. And now he admitted it in court.
People lie. People can't be trusted. Especially with their lives' work at stake plus a boatload of money.
I do agree with most of your last paragraph, there's nothing wrong or to be criticized about what Sky did, they played it perfectly. But don't criticize Evans either. He did attack. He didn't have the strength to do it on the uphill so did it somewhere else, that's all.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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Posted on 25-11-2024 05:08
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 09-06-2012 19:08
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When they joined the peloton Sky said that in 5 years or something like that they want to win the Tour de France. And they want to do it with a British rider as well. I guess they knew something which we didn't.
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 09-06-2012 19:18
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issoisso wrote:
lenny, all of Sky's GC guys are coming out of nowhere recently. I mean come on.
Urán is 35th in the Giro and 32 in the Vuelta, then the next year he joins Sky and he's sitting in the white jersey at the Tour and finishing top 5 in a major mountain stage before he gets sick
Froome has zero top 20s in mountain stages in many years of riding GTs. Then he nearly wins a GT?
Henao top 10 in his first GT? A stretch, but I'll buy it.
Porte's best mountain stage performance is "only" losing nearly 2 minutes on a stage that was ridden slowly until near the finish, and losing way more in every other one he's ever ridden....then he joins Sky and goes from that to pulling the peloton up the Joux-Plane dropping major contenders?
Rogers was listed on the blood passport list as "Very suspicious many remarks about the blood profile which seems to have a very irregular pattern".
And that's not even touching Wiggins' sudden massive improvement, or his blood passport being listed as "To be watched carefully"
I'm sorry, but that just doesn't fly. This isn't an isolated case that can happen once in a while, it's a sequence of case after case after case after case, always at the same team!
As for Wiggins and his grandma or whoever having being publicly against doping, we've already had this discussion with you last year at the Vuelta: That means nothing. Tyler Hamilton went as far as donating large parts of his salary to fund the anti-doping fight....and then he tested positive.
Then he came back....and tested positive again. Then he denied the whole thing. And now he admitted it in court.
People lie. People can't be trusted. Especially with their lives' work at stake plus a boatload of money.
I do agree with most of your last paragraph, there's nothing wrong or to be criticized about what Sky did, they played it perfectly. But don't criticize Evans either. He did attack. He didn't have the strength to do it on the uphill so did it somewhere else, that's all.
Not being funny but I don't think Brailsford, Sutton and Ellingworth would allow any riders to dope... |
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| jph27 |
Posted on 09-06-2012 19:21
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CLURPR wrote:
issoisso wrote:
lenny, all of Sky's GC guys are coming out of nowhere recently. I mean come on.
Urán is 35th in the Giro and 32 in the Vuelta, then the next year he joins Sky and he's sitting in the white jersey at the Tour and finishing top 5 in a major mountain stage before he gets sick
Froome has zero top 20s in mountain stages in many years of riding GTs. Then he nearly wins a GT?
Henao top 10 in his first GT? A stretch, but I'll buy it.
Porte's best mountain stage performance is "only" losing nearly 2 minutes on a stage that was ridden slowly until near the finish, and losing way more in every other one he's ever ridden....then he joins Sky and goes from that to pulling the peloton up the Joux-Plane dropping major contenders?
Rogers was listed on the blood passport list as "Very suspicious many remarks about the blood profile which seems to have a very irregular pattern".
And that's not even touching Wiggins' sudden massive improvement, or his blood passport being listed as "To be watched carefully"
I'm sorry, but that just doesn't fly. This isn't an isolated case that can happen once in a while, it's a sequence of case after case after case after case, always at the same team!
As for Wiggins and his grandma or whoever having being publicly against doping, we've already had this discussion with you last year at the Vuelta: That means nothing. Tyler Hamilton went as far as donating large parts of his salary to fund the anti-doping fight....and then he tested positive.
Then he came back....and tested positive again. Then he denied the whole thing. And now he admitted it in court.
People lie. People can't be trusted. Especially with their lives' work at stake plus a boatload of money.
I do agree with most of your last paragraph, there's nothing wrong or to be criticized about what Sky did, they played it perfectly. But don't criticize Evans either. He did attack. He didn't have the strength to do it on the uphill so did it somewhere else, that's all.
Not being funny but I don't think Brailsford, Sutton and Ellingworth would allow any riders to dope...
 Naive much? |
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 09-06-2012 19:22
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How on earth am i naive? Brailsford has transformed the british track team over the past 10 years and no one has questioned that? People just can't comprehend what Sky has done with Brailsford at the helm. Its a shame where anyone who ever does well is automatically called a doper! Sky has a unique way of doing things and are basically copying what they did on the track!
Edited by CLURPR on 09-06-2012 19:29
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 09-06-2012 19:40
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CLURPR wrote:
How on earth am i naive? Brailsford has transformed the british track team over the past 10 years and no one has questioned that? People just can't comprehend what Sky has done with Brailsford at the helm. Its a shame where anyone who ever does well is automatically called a doper! Sky has a unique way of doing things and are basically copying what they did on the track!
No one questioned that because no one watches track. Also they pumped in so much more money than everyone else, they were bound to deliver results.
If you want I can say that the Olympics in 08 was just as farcical. GB utterly dominant, lapping opponents left right and centre. I would be unsurprised if they were on something.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-06-2012 20:09
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Tour de France Champion
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One thing just popped into my mind: If Gilbert had accepted the offer from Sky, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation 
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 09-06-2012 21:38
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CLURPR wrote:
How on earth am i naive? Brailsford has transformed the british track team over the past 10 years and no one has questioned that? People just can't comprehend what Sky has done with Brailsford at the helm. Its a shame where anyone who ever does well is automatically called a doper! Sky has a unique way of doing things and are basically copying what they did on the track!
Sure, they reinvented a 100 years old sport, and no one has the idea to copy their method and better their system. What a sport of idiots, really. |
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| Smal |
Posted on 09-06-2012 21:42
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Absolutely no way are Sky doping 
Other riders aren't doping as much (if at all) anymore, and Sky are putting a lot more work into their training, minimal gains and preparation than other teams. They're making riders reach their maximum without doping, whilst others are suffering because they don't have this preparation and they're not doping anymore |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-06-2012 21:46
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Tour de France Champion
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Smal wrote:
Absolutely no way are Sky doping
Other riders aren't doping as much (if at all) anymore, and Sky are putting a lot more work into their training, minimal gains and preparation than other teams. They're making riders reach their maximum without doping, whilst others are suffering because they don't have this preparation and they're not doping anymore
Thanks dude. You filled the nostalgic hole in my heart.
Since Armstrong retired I've been missing the "It's Chris Carmicheal's radical training methods!" type of blind fan.
<3
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| kumazan |
Posted on 09-06-2012 22:10
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And this is why he's the UCI president.
1 day ago, our Dear Leader Patrick McQuaid said:
In the big mountain stages, you never see the (team) leader surrounded by three or four domestiques. He usually finishes the climb on his own. That wasn’t the case during the big period of EPO
Ain't he cute?
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| arthon |
Posted on 09-06-2012 22:13
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kumazan wrote:
And this is why he's the UCI president.
1 day ago, our Dear Leader Patrick McQuaid said:
In the big mountain stages, you never see the (team) leader surrounded by three or four domestiques. He usually finishes the climb on his own. That wasn’t the case during the big period of EPO
Ain't he cute?
That's quite some timing. |
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 09-06-2012 22:13
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Pat, you just made a total a*s out of yourself |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 09-06-2012 22:14
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World Champion
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kumazan wrote:
And this is why he's the UCI president.
1 day ago, our Dear Leader Patrick McQuaid said:
In the big mountain stages, you never see the (team) leader surrounded by three or four domestiques. He usually finishes the climb on his own. That wasn’t the case during the big period of EPO
Ain't he cute?
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| Smal |
Posted on 09-06-2012 22:23
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issoisso wrote:
Smal wrote:
Absolutely no way are Sky doping
Other riders aren't doping as much (if at all) anymore, and Sky are putting a lot more work into their training, minimal gains and preparation than other teams. They're making riders reach their maximum without doping, whilst others are suffering because they don't have this preparation and they're not doping anymore
Thanks dude. You filled the nostalgic hole in my heart.
Since Armstrong retired I've been missing the "It's Chris Carmicheal's radical training methods!" type of blind fan.
<3
Are you seriously comparing Wiggins to Armstrong?
Armstrong won 7 TdF GCs in a row. The biggest race Wiggins has won is Paris-Nice and his closest competitor for that was Westra ffs. There's a bit of a difference. Armstrong was clearly doping, but just because a team is having a bit of success for six months they're doping? I suppose watching cycling can make you pessimistic, but your earlier post was obscene. |
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| dienblad |
Posted on 09-06-2012 22:37
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COme on you guys, it is just the Dauphinée!!! When Sky is dominating / controlling the Tour, then you can start talking about dope.
For the record: Im no Sky or Wiggins fan. Only riders from the team I like are Flecha, EBH and Cav....
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 09-06-2012 22:50
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All this talk about Sky and doping... I don't know, I think being in a strong team makes a rider a bit stronger, if you know what I mean.
Though I believe Wiggins is quite talented and works hard, so I don't immediatly think about doping. Biggist win so far, like 'Smal' said, is Par-Nice.
He's a great TT and a decent climber. So I don't think it's impossible for him to fight for TDF win without doping. |
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