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Vuelta a España - Week 3
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 08-09-2012 20:48
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kumazan wrote:
Deadpool wrote:
kumazan wrote:
Deadpool wrote:
Cafe Pedro 4: Where Lance still has seven titles and Andy Schleck has a pair of testicles.
Café Pedro 4: Shit, I clicked the wrong thread! 
I didn't actually do that, did I? I apologize.
You didn't? Wow, it must be me being obtuse then, I don't get what you meant by that?
Deadpool wrote:
I guess I have to comment on the Vuelta now, so a question. Taking into consideration that point in time when the J-Rod-Valverde gap was announced as 1'14" today (at least the Brit Eurosport announcers said as such), and how for that moment it seemed like J-Rod was going to jump back up to 2nd and possibly give a faltering Contador a run for his money...has there been a better GT in recent memory??? I think the '03 Tour definitely was (especially with Lance trying to tie Indurain w/ five in a row), but...any since? Amazing course, amazing field, crazy back and forth racing. Three of the best weeks of bike racing I've ever witnessed.
Just in the last 3 years, I'd say Giro 09, 10 and 11, and Tour 10. Tour 11 would be close, but probably better as well. Vuelta 09 was better too. I think this Vuelta is the most overrated GT ever, although it's not surprising considering how crap Giro and Tour have been this year, and that many people missed AC.
It's a line that you often use when you make a really stupid mistake, and am kind of in disbelief about it yourself.
I completely disagree. This Vuelta had a great four- then three-way battle for the victory. A solid class of second tier riders, and a crazy route that somehow managed to not be extremely entertaining and difficult without reaching the point where it was actually causing the quality of the races to go down (i.e. 2011 Giro). I don't think any of the ones you've mentioned hold a candle to it (especially the 2010 Tour, I hated that race). |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 08-09-2012 20:58
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Duh, so I really was obtuse.
As for the Vuelta, the quality of the race wasn't that high. All we saw, barring the epic stage to Fuente Dé of course, and stage like the one to Barcelona, were short battles inside the last 3 km, exactly what most people hated about the Giro.
It was nowhere near as good as the 2010 Giro, which was literally in another league. The 2009 Giro was also way better, and while I understand that Contador's domination kinda killed the excitement of the 2011 Giro, the quality of the racing was above this year's Vuelta.
And how could you hate the 2010 Tour, yet love so much this Vuelta? The stage to Morzine was like most of the "mountain" stages in this Vuelta, nothing until the last few kms, then some action. The stage over the Madeleine was quality, and so was the Tourmalet one. Ax 3 Domaines and Balès were decent, not great, but definitely not worse than Ancares or Bola del Mundo.
Edited by kumazan on 08-09-2012 20:59
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| dienblad |
Posted on 08-09-2012 21:06
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By the way, I read on twitter that RodrÃguez climbed the last steep part of the Bola del Mundo (the part on the concrete road) about 45-50 seconds faster than Nibali in 2010.....
DOn't know if this is true, but that is a lot faster. Again, another thing to my suspicious list about him....
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| jph27 |
Posted on 08-09-2012 21:12
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dienblad wrote:
By the way, I read on twitter that RodrÃguez climbed the last steep part of the Bola del Mundo (the part on the concrete road) about 45-50 seconds faster than Nibali in 2010.....
DOn't know if this is true, but that is a lot faster. Again, another thing to my suspicious list about him....
I'd only be suspicious if that made him faster than Mosquera. |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 08-09-2012 21:13
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jph27 wrote:
dienblad wrote:
By the way, I read on twitter that RodrÃguez climbed the last steep part of the Bola del Mundo (the part on the concrete road) about 45-50 seconds faster than Nibali in 2010.....
DOn't know if this is true, but that is a lot faster. Again, another thing to my suspicious list about him....
I'd only be suspicious if that made him faster than Mosquera.
It does. Mosquera was 1" faster than Nibali.
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 08-09-2012 21:24
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issoisso wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Valverde with a strong comeback this season, he returned to power 
Took him most of the season to get there though.
But to be honest I was surprised he was that good in his first year, even at the end of it.
Then again, not helped by the injury in March/April that kept him out of a few races and ruined his classics season
Like I told yesterday. beside he's condition..he is best when calculation needed . How do I get max result out of me..and I dont slow down before line.
Another fact today. Contador was not bluffing. he's condition is far from he's best. Still how tour not best rider-climber outplayed much stronger rider was classy |
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| Jacdk |
Posted on 09-09-2012 05:27
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kumazan wrote:
Duh, so I really was obtuse.
As for the Vuelta, the quality of the race wasn't that high. All we saw, barring the epic stage to Fuente Dé of course, and stage like the one to Barcelona, were short battles inside the last 3 km, exactly what most people hated about the Giro.
It was nowhere near as good as the 2010 Giro, which was literally in another league. The 2009 Giro was also way better, and while I understand that Contador's domination kinda killed the excitement of the 2011 Giro, the quality of the racing was above this year's Vuelta.
And how could you hate the 2010 Tour, yet love so much this Vuelta? The stage to Morzine was like most of the "mountain" stages in this Vuelta, nothing until the last few kms, then some action. The stage over the Madeleine was quality, and so was the Tourmalet one. Ax 3 Domaines and Balès were decent, not great, but definitely not worse than Ancares or Bola del Mundo.
So just to check before i start to get into a argument.
Whats your background in cycling? what major tour team have you run for and which local tv-station are you working for now?
Because the quality of this years Vuelta was better then anything that has been before, and unless your just trolling, when havent a GT been about the last 1/3-1/4 of the race? do you know why TV-stations lost out on Contadors attack on the 17th stage? simply because nothing rarely happens before that point.
But if there is something everyone can agree one and is sounding off from almost anyone in cycling and who have watched this years Vuelta , its that this has been the best GT in years, usally Contador is so far above the rest that its not funny.
And last year wasn´t even close to what this years was in quality.
But then again your entitled to your opnion just to bad noone or almost noone is going to agree with you  |
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| jph27 |
Posted on 09-09-2012 07:44
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Jacdk wrote:
kumazan wrote:
Duh, so I really was obtuse.
As for the Vuelta, the quality of the race wasn't that high. All we saw, barring the epic stage to Fuente Dé of course, and stage like the one to Barcelona, were short battles inside the last 3 km, exactly what most people hated about the Giro.
It was nowhere near as good as the 2010 Giro, which was literally in another league. The 2009 Giro was also way better, and while I understand that Contador's domination kinda killed the excitement of the 2011 Giro, the quality of the racing was above this year's Vuelta.
And how could you hate the 2010 Tour, yet love so much this Vuelta? The stage to Morzine was like most of the "mountain" stages in this Vuelta, nothing until the last few kms, then some action. The stage over the Madeleine was quality, and so was the Tourmalet one. Ax 3 Domaines and Balès were decent, not great, but definitely not worse than Ancares or Bola del Mundo.
So just to check before i start to get into a argument.
Whats your background in cycling? what major tour team have you run for and which local tv-station are you working for now?
Because the quality of this years Vuelta was better then anything that has been before, and unless your just trolling, when havent a GT been about the last 1/3-1/4 of the race? do you know why TV-stations lost out on Contadors attack on the 17th stage? simply because nothing rarely happens before that point.
But if there is something everyone can agree one and is sounding off from almost anyone in cycling and who have watched this years Vuelta , its that this has been the best GT in years, usally Contador is so far above the rest that its not funny.
And last year wasn´t even close to what this years was in quality.
But then again your entitled to your opnion just to bad noone or almost noone is going to agree with you
The only troll here good sir, is yourself. |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 09-09-2012 08:00
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I'd say neither are trolling
I think this is far and away the best GT of 2012.
Of the last 5 years/ 10 years, I doubt it. It will go down as one of the most exciting though. Its been pretty close, the winner has been in doubt until the final mountain stage, and there has been attacking, and a whole lot of spectacular things happening. There may not have been attacks until the final 3km on most stages, but the leaders were certainly isolated, which still makes for good entertainment imo. As well as that, the way Contador continues to try and crack Purito, but Purito just claws his way back, and then Valverde does the same but even slower, I find exciting too. Everything is always in question I guess.
I do somewhat agree with the statement about everyone over-rating this GT because of the lack in quality the rest of the season though. I think the 08 Tour was still better f.e.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-09-2012 08:07
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Deadpool wrote:
I guess I have to comment on the Vuelta now, so a question. Taking into consideration that point in time when the J-Rod-Valverde gap was announced as 1'14" today (at least the Brit Eurosport announcers said as such), and how for that moment it seemed like J-Rod was going to jump back up to 2nd and possibly give a faltering Contador a run for his money...has there been a better GT in recent memory??? I think the '03 Tour definitely was (especially with Lance trying to tie Indurain w/ five in a row), but...any since? Amazing course, amazing field, crazy back and forth racing. Three of the best weeks of bike racing I've ever witnessed.
2010 Giro. 19 of the 21 stages something exciting (and usually insane) happened. I doubt any GT is ever going to come close. Not even the 2001 Vuelta.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Ildabaoth |
Posted on 09-09-2012 08:19
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Jacdk wrote:
So just to check before i start to get into a argument.
Whats your background in cycling? what major tour team have you run for and which local tv-station are you working for now?
But then again your entitled to your opnion just to bad noone or almost noone is going to agree with you
You are quite agressive, my friend. Besides, invoking background in cycling or experience in managing cycling teams is some poor argumentum ad autoritas (or even worse, since I don't think you have managed a cycling team yourself, but anyways).
In any case, despite having enjoyed this year's Vuelta, Kumazan has strong arguments. 2009 and 2010 Giro d'Italia were amazing, probably the 2 best GTs in the last few years, and it is very likely this Vuelta's main appeal was due to Contador's tenacity and the unexpected performance of RodrÃguez.
I rather stop now. Perhaps you are the one who is trolling and I'm feeling like a dumb by taking the bait.
Disclaimer: The above post reflects just the personal opinion of the author and not a fact. But if you read it, you must accept it as the ultimate truth.
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| CountArach |
Posted on 09-09-2012 08:49
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Giro 10 was better than this. It was an absolutely classic race. But not much better, this has been incredible.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-09-2012 09:19
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I know ill probably be laughed at for this but...
I loved the '06, '07 and '09 Tours
2006 - was awesome just to watch Landis so drudged up and see what a human body can do when pushed right to the edge. And that final time trial was the first TDF stage i ever watched so im bias...
2007 - Contador vs. Rasmussen was epic! They actually attacked each other at any point on a mountain! No wheelsucking. Shame Rasmussen was withdrawn, could have been an epic GC battle
2009 - I loved this race! First, Pellizzoti vs Martinez for KoM. I cant remember a KoM being fought for each day, and the teams getting involved to do so. Hushovd vs Cavendish for the Points. The was epic! Cavs winning 6! stages while Hushovd went attacking in the mountains. They even sprinted for 13th places! The GC battle was interesting. Contador attacking everyone, Lance in his podium comeback, Andy trying to counter Contador, Wiggins shocking everyone. While the final gaps we not exactly small there was action on all hill, tt and mo stages, and even the early stage to Le Grand Motte on the flat. I really loved this race and was glued to it every single day. No other GT has had me racing home to watch or sitting still for 3+hours on the edge of my seat.
Just my opinions
This years Vuelta was good, but almost all action happened in the last few km's. The main GC contenders are all on a similar level, and 2 of them just wheelsucked most of the time. The only exciting GC moment was Contador to Fuente De. KoM sucked, points sucked, combi sucked, team sucked, flat sucked... A close race is good, but this has been close for the wrong reasons
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 09-09-2012 09:30
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The 2009 Tour? Really?
That was one of the most boring GTs in a long time if you ask me.
The 2010 Giro is my favourite. Both because it was the first GT I followed closely every day and because the racing was awesome. But this Vuelta is second to that in my book.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-09-2012 09:32
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I agree. For me, when mentioning "Close for the wrong reasons", the 2009 Tour is the poster child.
I know TheManxMissile is british and as such the Tour where Wiggins comes out of nowhere and Cavendish wins 6 stages is going to feel like a great race for him, but I remember back when it ended most of us were out of our minds at how boring it had been. Barely anything happened, and that's why everyone was so close.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-09-2012 09:32
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
The 2009 Tour? Really?
That was one of the most boring GTs in a long time if you ask me.
I loved it and found it exciting. But each to their own 
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-09-2012 09:37
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Right, to each his own. I just find it odd simply because when I think of a boring GT, the 2009 Tour is always the very first race I think of.
It was so full of nothing happening in the mountains that Armstrong and Wiggins still finished 3rd and 4th on the basis of the TTT
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-09-2012 09:40
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I guess i more loved the KoM and Points battles
They were great!
There is more to a GT than mountains and GC
i love how we argue about 09 but nothing about Landis or Rasmussen
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-09-2012 09:44
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TheManxMissile wrote:
i love how we argue about 09 but nothing about Landis or Rasmussen
The 2007 Tour was good. 2006 I liked even more since it was full of surprises most days (I'll never forget the feeling of "WTF is happening?" the day of the first TT). And Sastre animating things in the mountains but losing the Tour in the TTs (and a bad day on the Alpe)
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 09-09-2012 10:03
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I don't know if 2006 was good, but it was definitely interesting, at least on paper.
Armstrong had retired, so everything was set for an Ullrich vs Basso battle, with the likes of Valverde as underdogs, and then a couple of days before the start the two favourites are sent home, and Valverde falls and breaks his collarbone after one week or so.
Chaos. That made the first mountain stages unpredictable, and no team was certain whether it should be in charge of the race or not. |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
