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Tour de France 11 Stage 20: Grenoble > Grenoble 42.5km
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 23-07-2011 22:26
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Talleyrand wrote:
HGH (Human Growth Hormone) is not a steroid but a protein.
Not all hormones are steroids.
Not all proteins are hormones.
Cortocosteroids have various pharmacological activities such as for instance anti-inflammatory. You can e.g. use them to cure a tennis elbow or certain skin diseases.
Mmm. I suppose some mistranslations are confusing me here, but thanks for helping. 
Biology lessons are also more than a decade behind, so what's left of my knowledge is probably outdated as well. 
To me a protein is a macromolecule, that you'll find in food, and that is used, a.o. to build muscular tissues.
HGH is a hormone, which is a substance (either body-produced, either synthetic) that stimulates muscles to grab more proteins to build up. I'm quite surprised to read it's a protein.
Steroids would be a general term for any substance that'd stimulate the muscles to build up (anabolism).
I agree with your definition and uses of corticosteroids (well, I'd be wrong if I disagreed to an expert anyway  ), but, given what's above, corticosteroids would rank among steroids, but there'd exist other steroids that wouldn't be cortioids.
Is that right ?
My whole point, if relevant, was that issoisso's claim that steroids have been allowed was an abusive generalisation, since only corticosteroids have been allowed. |
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| lup_andrei |
Posted on 23-07-2011 22:31
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Stagiare
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valverde321 wrote:
dakey11 wrote:
he has become good at classics aswell and his big climbing legs came this year so all rounder
Yes but thats it. Hilly stages/classics, Mountains, TTs. He's also alright for a GC rider at Cobbles, but nothing that merits best allround rider imo.
Geraint Thomas is a better allround rider imo. Cadel just climbs and tt's.
In my opinion he is a very complete rider. He isnt too bad on flat or even sprints , rides well cobbles, strade bianche, hills, mountains, downhills, wet downhills, flat itts, hilly itts, prologues, he has everything. And don't forget he is good on rain too, that can count sometimes.
Look at the points classification, that's a very good indication I think. Thomas, Gilbert, Voeckler are also complete riders. Hagen too maybe.
PS: He won the sprinters jersey in the Giro last year too 
Edited by lup_andrei on 23-07-2011 22:35
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| dakey11 |
Posted on 23-07-2011 22:32
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lup_andrei wrote:
Omg, I can't believe he made it! It's a dream come true for him and also for me. I'm so happy for him.
Next: Vuelta I hope. He told me before the Dauphine there's 70-80% that he will ride the Vuelta too. We'll see.
well going for 2 grand tours in one year lets go lol he can do it
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| lup_andrei |
Posted on 23-07-2011 22:39
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Stagiare
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dakey11 wrote:
lup_andrei wrote:
Omg, I can't believe he made it! It's a dream come true for him and also for me. I'm so happy for him.
Next: Vuelta I hope. He told me before the Dauphine there's 70-80% that he will ride the Vuelta too. We'll see.
well going for 2 grand tours in one year lets go lol he can do it
2007 - Tour (2) & Vuelta (4)
2008- Tour (2) , then he agravated his knee injury in Beijing and missed the Vuelta
2009- Tour (30) & Vuelta (3) & world champion
2010- Giro (5 and sprinters jersey) & Tour (26)
2011- Tour (1) and I think he will opt to ride Vuelta judging on his previous years. He can hold his form for more than 3 weeks we know that.
What a Vuelta we'll have! |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 23-07-2011 22:43
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dakey11 wrote:
he has become good at classics aswell and his big climbing legs came this year so all rounder Like Cunego who found his' back, like Voeckler, Rolland and others ? No. They've just climbed significantly slower than during the previous decade. |
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| dakey11 |
Posted on 23-07-2011 22:49
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still cadel alwaysed looked the best on the top of the climbs i think he went as fast as he needed to
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 23-07-2011 22:52
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World Champion
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lup_andrei wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
dakey11 wrote:
he has become good at classics aswell and his big climbing legs came this year so all rounder
Yes but thats it. Hilly stages/classics, Mountains, TTs. He's also alright for a GC rider at Cobbles, but nothing that merits best allround rider imo.
Geraint Thomas is a better allround rider imo. Cadel just climbs and tt's.
In my opinion he is a very complete rider. He isnt too bad on flat or even sprints , rides well cobbles, strade bianche, hills, mountains, downhills, wet downhills, flat itts, hilly itts, prologues, he has everything. And don't forget he is good on rain too, that can count sometimes.
Look at the points classification, that's a very good indication I think. Thomas, Gilbert, Voeckler are also complete riders. Hagen too maybe.
PS: He won the sprinters jersey in the Giro last year too
It should probably be noted that only 1 REAL sprinter targeted the Green Jersey this year, so Cadel being up there isn't that impressive. When has he ever won a bunch sprint?
Also Cadel did well at Strade Bianchi (which is different from cobbles) because for the most part the stage was climbing, and with his MTB background its no surprise since the stage is dirt. 
I'll agree he's a fairly complete rider but certainly not the best all-round rider since he isn't even that great at sprinting, or Cobbles.
PS: Hesjedal is almost the same as Cadel, also thanks to MTB background, but I think Hesjedal is a worse climber and TTer, but better on cobbles, downhilling, and sprinting out of small groups.
Yeah Hagen is also a good allrounder. His weakness is climbing which he still does better than most.
Edited by valverde321 on 23-07-2011 22:55
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| lup_andrei |
Posted on 23-07-2011 22:58
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Stagiare
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I'm not saying he is a real sprinter, but he has decent finishes. Being almost near the top 3 Cav, Rojas and Phil and winning the sprinters jersey last year in Giro tells you how consistent he is. If it wasn't for intermediate sprints or were given 45 points every stage, he would have won the green jersey too |
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| Pedrogs |
Posted on 23-07-2011 23:03
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VOECKLER AND ALL TEAM EUROPCAR ARE SUSPICIOUS!  |
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| ruben |
Posted on 23-07-2011 23:10
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Grand Tour Champion
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anyone feeling the no-needle policy had an extra effect this Tour? |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 23:18
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| kumazan |
Posted on 23-07-2011 23:14
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ruben wrote:
anyone feeling the no-needle policy had an extra effect this Tour?
The question is how did they enforce that?
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| HansiBoyo |
Posted on 23-07-2011 23:17
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Stagiare
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Pedrogs wrote:
VOECKLER AND ALL TEAM EUROPCAR ARE SUSPICIOUS!
Uh oh, someone is performing better than usual....must be something illegal
Same old excuse for something like that.
Edited by HansiBoyo on 23-07-2011 23:18
The Heroes: Domenico Pozzovivo & Igor Antón Hernandez
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 23-07-2011 23:29
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kumazan wrote:
ruben wrote:
anyone feeling the no-needle policy had an extra effect this Tour?
The question is how did they enforce that? Yes, that's the greatest question mark here too.
How do they control there are no needles around ? Do they check the riders body to make sure no needle has been used ?
When they'd see a needle mark, what could they do ?
To me it sounds more like a gentlemen agreement than anything fully functional. Cheaters are no choir boys, I wouldn't trust gentlemen agreements too much.
Still I probably miss some information about that NNP. I'd be very glad to know more about it.
Maybe the usual cheaters feared AFLD instead ? |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 23-07-2011 23:33
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HansiBoyo wrote:
Pedrogs wrote:
VOECKLER AND ALL TEAM EUROPCAR ARE SUSPICIOUS!
Uh oh, someone is performing better than usual....must be something illegal
Same old excuse for something like that. Problem is that it's not usual for Bouygues to have and defend a leader's jersey. So, nobody can't judge if they've been better than usual.
To me, but I might be wrong, it looked more like the favourites have suddenly had their level dropping. Alpe d'Huez climbing times, as shown in another topic, are very far from the usual times of the past 20 years. I had the same feeling, but no serious figure to back it up, during the Pyrénées.
Then again, they seemed to have met a lot of face wind during the final climbs, which would explain a part (major or minor ?) of the slower speed.
Edited by Aquarius on 23-07-2011 23:33
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| dakey11 |
Posted on 23-07-2011 23:43
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major part head wind kills
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| mowinckel91 |
Posted on 23-07-2011 23:51
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I feel this tour has been the cleanest so far, and I share the same thought as Aquarius. It seems more like the favourites have tropped in their performance level than a lot of other riders taking drugs. |
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| HansiBoyo |
Posted on 23-07-2011 23:51
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Stagiare
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Aquarius wrote:
HansiBoyo wrote:
Pedrogs wrote:
VOECKLER AND ALL TEAM EUROPCAR ARE SUSPICIOUS!
Uh oh, someone is performing better than usual....must be something illegal
Same old excuse for something like that. Problem is that it's not usual for Bouygues to have and defend a leader's jersey. So, nobody can't judge if they've been better than usual.
To me, but I might be wrong, it looked more like the favourites have suddenly had their level dropping. Alpe d'Huez climbing times, as shown in another topic, are very far from the usual times of the past 20 years. I had the same feeling, but no serious figure to back it up, during the Pyrénées.
Then again, they seemed to have met a lot of face wind during the final climbs, which would explain a part (major or minor ?) of the slower speed.
I am just tired of people who presume that people are doped because they perform better. I can see your point, and it makes sense.
The Heroes: Domenico Pozzovivo & Igor Antón Hernandez
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 23-07-2011 23:54
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3936
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I'm glad Evans won the Tour, not because I'm a big fan (I'm not for him, nor am I against him), but because he is such a great rider and deserves a major win to look back on.
When it comes to Andy, I feel that we've seen a different side of him this year. I've always liked Andy and I still do, however I feel that he has been a bit more "winy" then usual. Hasn't he finished 2nd for 3 years in a row or something?
I think Andy needs to realise that to win the Tour (or any major race) it' s not enough to be great climber, you also have to be able to TT and descend, which is something he is rubbish at, quite frankly. Andy needs to have almost 3 minutes to spare before the final TT and that's very difficult. Previously he has walked away with the white jersey, this year Andy has nothing more to show for it then a single stage win.
Andy can't blame anyone but himself... he and Frank had the best team around him, but they lost time on the TT, lost time in the descents and didn't utilize their strenght (the mountains) well enough.
Andy, unless you want to end your career with ten 2nd places, improve your timetrailing and learn how to descend! |
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| Deda |
Posted on 24-07-2011 00:33
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to be able to descend, you definitely need a pair. not a pair of brothers, but a pair of organs that usually come in pair.
If offense is the best defence, does it mean that defence is the worst defence?
If I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord will delete my browser history.
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 24-07-2011 00:44
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Classics Specialist
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Deda wrote:
to be able to descend, you definitely need a pair. not a pair of brothers, but a pair of organs that usually come in pair.
To be fair. Andy and Frank have a pair...combined... |
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