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Ardennes classics
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| petrusba |
Posted on 25-04-2010 18:45
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Amateur
Posts: 10
Joined: 03-03-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
petrusba wrote:
If he was in such superhuman conditions as all of you claim, he would have won both mountain top finishes at Trentino a few days ago
Protip: read what you've written before you post. You might just realize how retarded it is.
I didn´t understand your comment... |
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| petrusba |
Posted on 25-04-2010 18:46
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Amateur
Posts: 10
Joined: 03-03-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I guess the new PCM2010 database will have a "few" changes....specially in team Astana  |
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 25-04-2010 18:47
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Team Leader
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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mb2612 wrote:
rjc_43 wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
P.P.S. Does Voeklers 10th imply that we may see him up there in the mountains in the tour this year?
You quite often see Voeckler up there in the mountains, until it gets to about the 2nd mountain stage in a row. Then he can't hack it anymore.
Essentially he just doesn't have the "recovery" of other riders?
You could say that yes, I also think he wastes more energy than others. Maybe it's because he doesn't see himself as a GC rider for most stage races.
Plus, we did see him up there on that mountain top finish in Paris-Nice.
Also, it strikes me as telling that Voeckler manages to somehow appear to "hold" his form the entire season long. Rather than some riders who "peak" for one race specifically. Maybe if he chose to peak for just one race he'd do better as well? To be honest, I don't know enough about professional physiology, and the effects drugs have on professionals to make any wild statements about it all. (Most drug studys have been done on elites/amateurs, who are significantly weaker than Pros).
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]  [/url] |
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 25-04-2010 18:48
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Team Leader
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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petrusba wrote:
issoisso wrote:
petrusba wrote:
If he was in such superhuman conditions as all of you claim, he would have won both mountain top finishes at Trentino a few days ago
Protip: read what you've written before you post. You might just realize how retarded it is.
I didn´t understand your comment...
Vino was only beaten by guys like Ricco, Basso, Pozzovivo, Scarponi, et al. All reknown, and mostly punished, dopers who have also come back.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk] [/url] |
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| Roman |
Posted on 25-04-2010 18:57
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4386
Joined: 29-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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ruben wrote:
I said he was out of form now (and still beating most other young guys except A.Schleck...)
How could be Gesink out of form when he was in form in Basque two weeks ago? He would be a moron if he "lost" his form in two weeks. 
Btw what do you expect from Gesink this year in Le Tour?
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-04-2010 19:03
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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petrusba wrote:
issoisso wrote:
petrusba wrote:
If he was in such superhuman conditions as all of you claim, he would have won both mountain top finishes at Trentino a few days ago
Protip: read what you've written before you post. You might just realize how retarded it is.
I didn´t understand your comment...
You're saying
being on drugs = being superhuman
Most of the guys caught on drugs haven't won anything
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ruben |
Posted on 25-04-2010 19:23
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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Roman wrote:
ruben wrote:
I said he was out of form now (and still beating most other young guys except A.Schleck...)
How could be Gesink out of form when he was in form in Basque two weeks ago? He would be a moron if he "lost" his form in two weeks.
Btw what do you expect from Gesink this year in Le Tour?
Because he has a respiratory infection maybe? (ie, coughing his lungs out )
When your in top form, you can get sick. Sh.t happens.
I think top 5 in the Tour
Edited by ruben on 25-04-2010 19:24
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-04-2010 19:35
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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rjc_43 wrote:
Also, it strikes me as telling that Voeckler manages to somehow appear to "hold" his form the entire season long. Rather than some riders who "peak" for one race specifically. Maybe if he chose to peak for just one race he'd do better as well? To be honest, I don't know enough about professional physiology, and the effects drugs have on professionals to make any wild statements about it all. (Most drug studys have been done on elites/amateurs, who are significantly weaker than Pros).
You're on the right idea there.
I think you can see it this way:
Before EPO and blood transfusions came into the peloton, everyone was like Voeckler: decent form most of the season, takes a lot of races to be able to ride himself into good form.
After EPO and blood transfusions, suddenly we have the Andy Schleck type rider. Rides few races, is in bad form for most, then when his season goals come around, he's "magically" in awesome form.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 25-04-2010 19:44
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Team Leader
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
rjc_43 wrote:
Also, it strikes me as telling that Voeckler manages to somehow appear to "hold" his form the entire season long. Rather than some riders who "peak" for one race specifically. Maybe if he chose to peak for just one race he'd do better as well? To be honest, I don't know enough about professional physiology, and the effects drugs have on professionals to make any wild statements about it all. (Most drug studys have been done on elites/amateurs, who are significantly weaker than Pros).
You're on the right idea there.
I think you can see it this way:
Before EPO and blood transfusions came into the peloton, everyone was like Voeckler: decent form most of the season, takes a lot of races to be able to ride himself into good form.
After EPO and blood transfusions, suddenly we have the Andy Schleck type rider. Rides few races, is in bad form for most, then when his season goals come around, he's "magically" in awesome form.
So, the best example of all - Sastre. Whats his total so far, 3 races? And he'll go top 10 in the Giro. Sure. That's possible.
The only thing we can really go on, are the pros who've admitted to taking stuff, and describing the effect of "recharging the batteries". Well, if one person's recharged, and guys like Voeckler aren't, well, having raced stage races myself, you can't go hard one day and the next and the next. Taint possible.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk] [/url] |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 14:56
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Bot Agent
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 25-04-2010 19:48
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7891
Joined: 04-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Cyclisme a 2 vitesses
That is all.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 25-04-2010 19:54
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Team Leader
Posts: 5759
Joined: 18-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
rjc_43 wrote:
Also, it strikes me as telling that Voeckler manages to somehow appear to "hold" his form the entire season long. Rather than some riders who "peak" for one race specifically. Maybe if he chose to peak for just one race he'd do better as well? To be honest, I don't know enough about professional physiology, and the effects drugs have on professionals to make any wild statements about it all. (Most drug studys have been done on elites/amateurs, who are significantly weaker than Pros).
You're on the right idea there.
I think you can see it this way:
Before EPO and blood transfusions came into the peloton, everyone was like Voeckler: decent form most of the season, takes a lot of races to be able to ride himself into good form.
After EPO and blood transfusions, suddenly we have the Andy Schleck type rider. Rides few races, is in bad form for most, then when his season goals come around, he's "magically" in awesome form.
To be fair, there has also been massive advances in sports physiology over the past 20 years, allowing riders to get into form without racing, just by doing the right training sessions.
That said, I have no idea how a rider can go from out of form to in form at the flick of a switch without drugs, although a lack of motivation could explain it partially.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| ponka00 |
Posted on 25-04-2010 19:58
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 820
Joined: 27-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Or it could be that when you are preparing for example the Tour then some riders choose not to go 110% for a win in a smaller race because he will be exhausted afterwards which will affect his training
Edited by ponka00 on 25-04-2010 19:58
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-04-2010 20:01
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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mb2612 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
rjc_43 wrote:
Also, it strikes me as telling that Voeckler manages to somehow appear to "hold" his form the entire season long. Rather than some riders who "peak" for one race specifically. Maybe if he chose to peak for just one race he'd do better as well? To be honest, I don't know enough about professional physiology, and the effects drugs have on professionals to make any wild statements about it all. (Most drug studys have been done on elites/amateurs, who are significantly weaker than Pros).
You're on the right idea there.
I think you can see it this way:
Before EPO and blood transfusions came into the peloton, everyone was like Voeckler: decent form most of the season, takes a lot of races to be able to ride himself into good form.
After EPO and blood transfusions, suddenly we have the Andy Schleck type rider. Rides few races, is in bad form for most, then when his season goals come around, he's "magically" in awesome form.
To be fair, there has also been massive advances in sports physiology over the past 20 years, allowing riders to get into form without racing, just by doing the right training sessions.
That said, I have no idea how a rider can go from out of form to in form at the flick of a switch without drugs, although a lack of motivation could explain it partially.
Nope, the top minds like Grappe are still saying the exact same thing. No matter how drive you are, you will never. ever. ever. ever. ever. train as hard as you race. Train only, don't race and you'll show up to the races flat and slow. And the first change of rhythm in the pack....you'll be dead.
ponka00 wrote:
Or it could be that when you are preparing for example the Tour then some riders choose not to go 110% for a win in a smaller race because he will be exhausted afterwards which will affect his training
Nope, they're trying and getting dropped.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 25-04-2010 20:10
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Team Leader
Posts: 5759
Joined: 18-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
rjc_43 wrote:
Also, it strikes me as telling that Voeckler manages to somehow appear to "hold" his form the entire season long. Rather than some riders who "peak" for one race specifically. Maybe if he chose to peak for just one race he'd do better as well? To be honest, I don't know enough about professional physiology, and the effects drugs have on professionals to make any wild statements about it all. (Most drug studys have been done on elites/amateurs, who are significantly weaker than Pros).
You're on the right idea there.
I think you can see it this way:
Before EPO and blood transfusions came into the peloton, everyone was like Voeckler: decent form most of the season, takes a lot of races to be able to ride himself into good form.
After EPO and blood transfusions, suddenly we have the Andy Schleck type rider. Rides few races, is in bad form for most, then when his season goals come around, he's "magically" in awesome form.
To be fair, there has also been massive advances in sports physiology over the past 20 years, allowing riders to get into form without racing, just by doing the right training sessions.
That said, I have no idea how a rider can go from out of form to in form at the flick of a switch without drugs, although a lack of motivation could explain it partially.
Nope, the top minds like Grappe are still saying the exact same thing. No matter how drive you are, you will never. ever. ever. ever. ever. train as hard as you race. Train only, don't race and you'll show up to the races flat and slow. And the first change of rhythm in the pack....you'll be dead.
Believe me, I know that, I just did an awful 2k test on the rowing machine, at least partially because I was by my self.
But the advances allow people to judge their training properly, and ensure that they are in peak form exactly when they want to be, and not over/under trained.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| pangare |
Posted on 25-04-2010 21:05
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Domestique
Posts: 443
Joined: 29-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
rjc_43 wrote:
Also, it strikes me as telling that Voeckler manages to somehow appear to "hold" his form the entire season long. Rather than some riders who "peak" for one race specifically. Maybe if he chose to peak for just one race he'd do better as well? To be honest, I don't know enough about professional physiology, and the effects drugs have on professionals to make any wild statements about it all. (Most drug studys have been done on elites/amateurs, who are significantly weaker than Pros).
You're on the right idea there.
I think you can see it this way:
Before EPO and blood transfusions came into the peloton, everyone was like Voeckler: decent form most of the season, takes a lot of races to be able to ride himself into good form.
After EPO and blood transfusions, suddenly we have the Andy Schleck type rider. Rides few races, is in bad form for most, then when his season goals come around, he's "magically" in awesome form.
To be fair, there has also been massive advances in sports physiology over the past 20 years, allowing riders to get into form without racing, just by doing the right training sessions.
That said, I have no idea how a rider can go from out of form to in form at the flick of a switch without drugs, although a lack of motivation could explain it partially.
Nope, the top minds like Grappe are still saying the exact same thing. No matter how drive you are, you will never. ever. ever. ever. ever. train as hard as you race. Train only, don't race and you'll show up to the races flat and slow. And the first change of rhythm in the pack....you'll be dead.
There is one thing called motorpacing and other called training intervals. |
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 25-04-2010 21:55
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Team Leader
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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The problem with motorpacing and intervals are that they are structured. Normally with set times for the length of an interval. Even if you mix it up, and make the recovery and interval lengths constantly changing you can't replicate the absolute effort you put in when countering someone elses' attack, or to attack when you are on the limit yourself.
As the Eurosport commentators said today about Contador - "look, he's on the limit". 2 seconds later, he attacks and bridges the gap. You don't get that extra punch without racing and pushing yourself past your maximum.
Edited by rjc_43 on 25-04-2010 21:56
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk] [/url] |
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| pangare |
Posted on 25-04-2010 22:39
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Domestique
Posts: 443
Joined: 29-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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The lenght of the interval isn't that much important. If you do a 30 second interval and in a race you have to follow an attack for 35 seconds it isnt that much of a difference. Rebellin in the final years of his carreer did loads of motorpacing to keep his lag fast and with rhytm ( EPO helped too ). |
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 25-04-2010 22:42
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Team Leader
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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The length of an interval is horrendously important. Your blatent lack of knowledge of training implications shocks and disgusts me. I refuse to continue any conversation with you.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk] [/url] |
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| pangare |
Posted on 25-04-2010 23:01
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Domestique
Posts: 443
Joined: 29-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Ok. You know more than the portuguese coach. Gratz. |
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 25-04-2010 23:06
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Team Leader
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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You are a Portuguese Coach?
Anyone wonder why there's only a very very few good Portuguese riders? And most are like Azevedo, drugged to hell.
I think Pangare just showed us why. Centuries behind in training standards.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk] [/url] |
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