|
Le Tour 09: Stage 21: Montereau-Fault-Yonne - Paris Champs-Élysées
|
| kadel |
Posted on 27-07-2009 12:32
|
Domestique
Posts: 480
Joined: 09-08-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
It's not a sprinter jersey, and never was. It is a point jersey. |
| |
|
|
| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 27-07-2009 13:52
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
Joined: 19-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Addy291 wrote:
Cav is just delighted to be the most successful Britain at the Tour de France ever, next year is when he goes for the illusive green jersey.
surely the elusive green jersey
|
| |
|
|
| KurtinSC |
Posted on 27-07-2009 14:02
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 997
Joined: 20-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
kadel wrote:
It's not a sprinter jersey, and never was. It is a point jersey.
Yes... and if not for a disqualification... Cav had more points.
I know, I know... he "broke the rules". But winning due to a judges decision is NOT the same as being better.
Again... it's like a boxer losing a fight on points to win because his opponent gets DQ's for throwing a below the belt jab. Yes... he won. But no... he wasn't the better fighter.
Hushovd won. But he wasn't the best rider in the points competition. |
| |
|
|
| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 27-07-2009 16:15
|
Team Manager
Posts: 33046
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
I think its funny that the slowness of Julian Dean pretty muh decided the winner on the Champs Elysses once again. Not that it needed much deciding, since Hushovd already seemed to have lost Cav's wheel when the sprint began.
Great tour for Cavendish, and it's nice for Brits to have something to cheer about in the Tour de France now.
|
| |
|
|
| Bosskardo |
Posted on 27-07-2009 16:19
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1559
Joined: 07-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
SportingNonsense wrote:
I think its funny that the slowness of Julian Dean pretty muh decided the winner on the Champs Elysses once again. Not that it needed much deciding, since Hushovd already seemed to have lost Cav's wheel when the sprint began.
Dean can say he has decided the winner of Champs Elysses two years a row.
|
| |
|
|
| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 27-07-2009 16:21
|
Team Manager
Posts: 33046
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Bosskardo wrote:
SportingNonsense wrote:
I think its funny that the slowness of Julian Dean pretty muh decided the winner on the Champs Elysses once again. Not that it needed much deciding, since Hushovd already seemed to have lost Cav's wheel when the sprint began.
Dean can say he has decided the winner of Champs Elysses two years a row.
I dont suppose its something he is too proud of, since he wanted to win last year, and wanted Farrar to win this year.
I dont really get Garmins tactics of putting Dean behind Cavendish right as Renshaw is about to go, and having Farrar behind Dean.
|
| |
|
|
| chrica04 |
Posted on 27-07-2009 19:31
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 853
Joined: 23-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
SportingNonsense wrote:
Bosskardo wrote:
SportingNonsense wrote:
I think its funny that the slowness of Julian Dean pretty muh decided the winner on the Champs Elysses once again. Not that it needed much deciding, since Hushovd already seemed to have lost Cav's wheel when the sprint began.
Dean can say he has decided the winner of Champs Elysses two years a row.
I dont suppose its something he is too proud of, since he wanted to win last year, and wanted Farrar to win this year.
I dont really get Garmins tactics of putting Dean behind Cavendish right as Renshaw is about to go, and having Farrar behind Dean.
When Hincapie fell off, Dean was on the outside and had to try and get back onto Cavs wheel, and lost some speed around the final corner, pretty much sucking farrar a chance. Not necessarily his fault, just got caught a bit under speed out of corner. |
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 11:04
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 27-07-2009 19:41
|
Team Manager
Posts: 33046
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
chrica04 wrote:
SportingNonsense wrote:
Bosskardo wrote:
SportingNonsense wrote:
I think its funny that the slowness of Julian Dean pretty muh decided the winner on the Champs Elysses once again. Not that it needed much deciding, since Hushovd already seemed to have lost Cav's wheel when the sprint began.
Dean can say he has decided the winner of Champs Elysses two years a row.
I dont suppose its something he is too proud of, since he wanted to win last year, and wanted Farrar to win this year.
I dont really get Garmins tactics of putting Dean behind Cavendish right as Renshaw is about to go, and having Farrar behind Dean.
When Hincapie fell off, Dean was on the outside and had to try and get back onto Cavs wheel, and lost some speed around the final corner, pretty much sucking farrar a chance. Not necessarily his fault, just got caught a bit under speed out of corner.
Ultimately they left it too late to get Farrar onto Cav's wheel, and were a bit fortunate that Hushovd had been gapped slightly so that there was just enough space to barge into and duly end any chance of a non-Cavendish win
|
| |
|
|
| chrica04 |
Posted on 27-07-2009 19:52
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 853
Joined: 23-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
SportingNonsense wrote:
chrica04 wrote:
SportingNonsense wrote:
Bosskardo wrote:
SportingNonsense wrote:
I think its funny that the slowness of Julian Dean pretty muh decided the winner on the Champs Elysses once again. Not that it needed much deciding, since Hushovd already seemed to have lost Cav's wheel when the sprint began.
Dean can say he has decided the winner of Champs Elysses two years a row.
I dont suppose its something he is too proud of, since he wanted to win last year, and wanted Farrar to win this year.
It was weird to see all those gaps... You had Farrar and Dean, gapped by Cav and Renshaw, and then Thor and a few others even farther behind Farrar. It always seems to happen. Thor won a few years ago after having a gap, Steegmans won with a gap.
I dont really get Garmins tactics of putting Dean behind Cavendish right as Renshaw is about to go, and having Farrar behind Dean.
When Hincapie fell off, Dean was on the outside and had to try and get back onto Cavs wheel, and lost some speed around the final corner, pretty much sucking farrar a chance. Not necessarily his fault, just got caught a bit under speed out of corner.
Ultimately they left it too late to get Farrar onto Cav's wheel, and were a bit fortunate that Hushovd had been gapped slightly so that there was just enough space to barge into and duly end any chance of a non-Cavendish win |
| |
|
|
| larsn91 |
Posted on 28-07-2009 05:48
|
Under 23
Posts: 72
Joined: 28-03-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
KurtinSC wrote:
kadel wrote:
It's not a sprinter jersey, and never was. It is a point jersey.
Yes... and if not for a disqualification... Cav had more points.
I know, I know... he "broke the rules". But winning due to a judges decision is NOT the same as being better.
Again... it's like a boxer losing a fight on points to win because his opponent gets DQ's for throwing a below the belt jab. Yes... he won. But no... he wasn't the better fighter.
Hushovd won. But he wasn't the best rider in the points competition.
Without the DQ, I believe Hushovd would have gone for more points through breakaways.. Hushovd was the best rider in the points competition, but Cavendish was the best Sprinter. |
| |
|
|
| KurtinSC |
Posted on 28-07-2009 12:35
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 997
Joined: 20-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
larsn91 wrote:
KurtinSC wrote:
kadel wrote:
It's not a sprinter jersey, and never was. It is a point jersey.
Yes... and if not for a disqualification... Cav had more points.
I know, I know... he "broke the rules". But winning due to a judges decision is NOT the same as being better.
Again... it's like a boxer losing a fight on points to win because his opponent gets DQ's for throwing a below the belt jab. Yes... he won. But no... he wasn't the better fighter.
Hushovd won. But he wasn't the best rider in the points competition.
Without the DQ, I believe Hushovd would have gone for more points through breakaways.. Hushovd was the best rider in the points competition, but Cavendish was the best Sprinter.
Without the DQ, Columbia would have chased down any break Hushovd was in. Turns out they should have chased down the one he did go for.
Fact remains that Hushovd's margin was less then the 14 points cav lost to him by being DQ'd. Cav got more points on the road... Thor won due to a DQ... not by being better in the points battle on the road.
The whole reason he went on the break was to "prove" he deserved the jersey even with the DQ... but it didn't work out that way. |
| |
|
|
| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 28-07-2009 16:11
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
If ..if..if.
If my father hasnt met my mother on that party ..I probably would not be able to but so many If words up there..
(p.s. I know Thor was ass) |
| |
|
|
| YtimK |
Posted on 28-07-2009 16:20
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 252
Joined: 07-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
err what's DQ again? 
"Sometimes in football you have to score goals." - Thierry Henry understands
|
| |
|
|
| BenBarnes |
Posted on 28-07-2009 16:27
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 277
Joined: 28-04-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Disqualified |
| |
|
|
| Shooting Star |
Posted on 28-07-2009 17:04
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 253
Joined: 04-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
KurtinSC wrote:
larsn91 wrote:
KurtinSC wrote:
kadel wrote:
It's not a sprinter jersey, and never was. It is a point jersey.
Yes... and if not for a disqualification... Cav had more points.
I know, I know... he "broke the rules". But winning due to a judges decision is NOT the same as being better.
Again... it's like a boxer losing a fight on points to win because his opponent gets DQ's for throwing a below the belt jab. Yes... he won. But no... he wasn't the better fighter.
Hushovd won. But he wasn't the best rider in the points competition.
Without the DQ, I believe Hushovd would have gone for more points through breakaways.. Hushovd was the best rider in the points competition, but Cavendish was the best Sprinter.
Without the DQ, Columbia would have chased down any break Hushovd was in. Turns out they should have chased down the one he did go for.
Fact remains that Hushovd's margin was less then the 14 points cav lost to him by being DQ'd. Cav got more points on the road... Thor won due to a DQ... not by being better in the points battle on the road.
The whole reason he went on the break was to "prove" he deserved the jersey even with the DQ... but it didn't work out that way.
The reason he went in a breakaway was to secure the green jersey. As for who deserved the jersey more, who cares? Hushovd won it and that's all that matters.
Edited by Shooting Star on 28-07-2009 18:44
|
| |
|
|
| KurtinSC |
Posted on 28-07-2009 18:28
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 997
Joined: 20-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Shooting Star wrote:
KurtinSC wrote:
larsn91 wrote:
KurtinSC wrote:
kadel wrote:
It's not a sprinter jersey, and never was. It is a point jersey.
Yes... and if not for a disqualification... Cav had more points.
I know, I know... he "broke the rules". But winning due to a judges decision is NOT the same as being better.
Again... it's like a boxer losing a fight on points to win because his opponent gets DQ's for throwing a below the belt jab. Yes... he won. But no... he wasn't the better fighter.
Hushovd won. But he wasn't the best rider in the points competition.
Without the DQ, I believe Hushovd would have gone for more points through breakaways.. Hushovd was the best rider in the points competition, but Cavendish was the best Sprinter.
Without the DQ, Columbia would have chased down any break Hushovd was in. Turns out they should have chased down the one he did go for.
Fact remains that Hushovd's margin was less then the 14 points cav lost to him by being DQ'd. Cav got more points on the road... Thor won due to a DQ... not by being better in the points battle on the road.
The whole reason he went on the break was to "prove" he deserved the jersey even with the DQ... but it didn't work out that way.
The reason he went in a breakaway was to secure the green jersey. As for who deserved the jersey more, who cares? Hushovd won it and that's all what matters.
Hushovd did win. I happen to think winning because of a judges decision to disqualify a rider when you clearly couldn't beat him on the road makes it an extremely weak victory, but it is a win.
I think his win is similar to the 200 meter sprint in the last Olympics. Usain Bolt won... but the 2nd and 3rd place guys got DQ'd because of taking a step outside their lane... that didn't interfere with anyone. No... I don't view the guys who actually got the silver and bronze medals as deserving them. They couldn't win it on the track. (and this was 2 US guys ending up with silver and bronze).
Thor won. But in my mind (and the minds of many others), it wasn't deserved, and more then the US atheletes in the 200 meters deserved their medals. |
| |
|
|
| BenBarnes |
Posted on 28-07-2009 18:32
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 277
Joined: 28-04-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
KurtinSC wrote:
Shooting Star wrote:
KurtinSC wrote:
larsn91 wrote:
KurtinSC wrote:
kadel wrote:
It's not a sprinter jersey, and never was. It is a point jersey.
Yes... and if not for a disqualification... Cav had more points.
I know, I know... he "broke the rules". But winning due to a judges decision is NOT the same as being better.
Again... it's like a boxer losing a fight on points to win because his opponent gets DQ's for throwing a below the belt jab. Yes... he won. But no... he wasn't the better fighter.
Hushovd won. But he wasn't the best rider in the points competition.
Without the DQ, I believe Hushovd would have gone for more points through breakaways.. Hushovd was the best rider in the points competition, but Cavendish was the best Sprinter.
Without the DQ, Columbia would have chased down any break Hushovd was in. Turns out they should have chased down the one he did go for.
Fact remains that Hushovd's margin was less then the 14 points cav lost to him by being DQ'd. Cav got more points on the road... Thor won due to a DQ... not by being better in the points battle on the road.
The whole reason he went on the break was to "prove" he deserved the jersey even with the DQ... but it didn't work out that way.
The reason he went in a breakaway was to secure the green jersey. As for who deserved the jersey more, who cares? Hushovd won it and that's all what matters.
Hushovd did win. I happen to think winning because of a judges decision to disqualify a rider when you clearly couldn't beat him on the road makes it an extremely weak victory, but it is a win.
I think his win is similar to the 200 meter sprint in the last Olympics. Usain Bolt won... but the 2nd and 3rd place guys got DQ'd because of taking a step outside their lane... that didn't interfere with anyone. No... I don't view the guys who actually got the silver and bronze medals as deserving them. They couldn't win it on the track. (and this was 2 US guys ending up with silver and bronze).
Thor won. But in my mind (and the minds of many others), it wasn't deserved, and more then the US atheletes in the 200 meters deserved their medals.
You know Crawford gave back the Silver though, right? |
| |
|
|
| ponka00 |
Posted on 28-07-2009 19:19
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 820
Joined: 27-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Hincapie rode the last 4 days with a broken collarbone after a fall on stage 17 
He wanted to wait with the x-rays and after the Tour his x-rays showed that it was broken
KurtinSC wrote:
Hushovd did win. I happen to think winning because of a judges decision to disqualify a rider when you clearly couldn't beat him on the road makes it an extremely weak victory, but it is a win.
I think his win is similar to the 200 meter sprint in the last Olympics. Usain Bolt won... but the 2nd and 3rd place guys got DQ'd because of taking a step outside their lane... that didn't interfere with anyone. No... I don't view the guys who actually got the silver and bronze medals as deserving them. They couldn't win it on the track. (and this was 2 US guys ending up with silver and bronze).
Thor won. But in my mind (and the minds of many others), it wasn't deserved, and more then the US atheletes in the 200 meters deserved their medals.
The problem is that cheating shouldn't reward cheating either 
If it is going to be like that then we could just abandon all rules and allow doping in at the same time 
Edited by ponka00 on 28-07-2009 19:19
|
| |
|
|
| KurtinSC |
Posted on 28-07-2009 19:27
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 997
Joined: 20-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
BenBarnes wrote:
KurtinSC wrote:
Shooting Star wrote:
KurtinSC wrote:
larsn91 wrote:
KurtinSC wrote:
kadel wrote:
It's not a sprinter jersey, and never was. It is a point jersey.
Yes... and if not for a disqualification... Cav had more points.
I know, I know... he "broke the rules". But winning due to a judges decision is NOT the same as being better.
Again... it's like a boxer losing a fight on points to win because his opponent gets DQ's for throwing a below the belt jab. Yes... he won. But no... he wasn't the better fighter.
Hushovd won. But he wasn't the best rider in the points competition.
Without the DQ, I believe Hushovd would have gone for more points through breakaways.. Hushovd was the best rider in the points competition, but Cavendish was the best Sprinter.
Without the DQ, Columbia would have chased down any break Hushovd was in. Turns out they should have chased down the one he did go for.
Fact remains that Hushovd's margin was less then the 14 points cav lost to him by being DQ'd. Cav got more points on the road... Thor won due to a DQ... not by being better in the points battle on the road.
The whole reason he went on the break was to "prove" he deserved the jersey even with the DQ... but it didn't work out that way.
The reason he went in a breakaway was to secure the green jersey. As for who deserved the jersey more, who cares? Hushovd won it and that's all what matters.
Hushovd did win. I happen to think winning because of a judges decision to disqualify a rider when you clearly couldn't beat him on the road makes it an extremely weak victory, but it is a win.
I think his win is similar to the 200 meter sprint in the last Olympics. Usain Bolt won... but the 2nd and 3rd place guys got DQ'd because of taking a step outside their lane... that didn't interfere with anyone. No... I don't view the guys who actually got the silver and bronze medals as deserving them. They couldn't win it on the track. (and this was 2 US guys ending up with silver and bronze).
Thor won. But in my mind (and the minds of many others), it wasn't deserved, and more then the US atheletes in the 200 meters deserved their medals.
You know Crawford gave back the Silver though, right?
Yep.... so based on that comparison, what should Thor do with the jersey?  |
| |
|
|
| Shooting Star |
Posted on 28-07-2009 19:41
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 253
Joined: 04-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
KurtinSC wrote:
Shooting Star wrote:
KurtinSC wrote:
larsn91 wrote:
KurtinSC wrote:
kadel wrote:
It's not a sprinter jersey, and never was. It is a point jersey.
Yes... and if not for a disqualification... Cav had more points.
I know, I know... he "broke the rules". But winning due to a judges decision is NOT the same as being better.
Again... it's like a boxer losing a fight on points to win because his opponent gets DQ's for throwing a below the belt jab. Yes... he won. But no... he wasn't the better fighter.
Hushovd won. But he wasn't the best rider in the points competition.
Without the DQ, I believe Hushovd would have gone for more points through breakaways.. Hushovd was the best rider in the points competition, but Cavendish was the best Sprinter.
Without the DQ, Columbia would have chased down any break Hushovd was in. Turns out they should have chased down the one he did go for.
Fact remains that Hushovd's margin was less then the 14 points cav lost to him by being DQ'd. Cav got more points on the road... Thor won due to a DQ... not by being better in the points battle on the road.
The whole reason he went on the break was to "prove" he deserved the jersey even with the DQ... but it didn't work out that way.
The reason he went in a breakaway was to secure the green jersey. As for who deserved the jersey more, who cares? Hushovd won it and that's all what matters.
Hushovd did win. I happen to think winning because of a judges decision to disqualify a rider when you clearly couldn't beat him on the road makes it an extremely weak victory, but it is a win.
I think his win is similar to the 200 meter sprint in the last Olympics. Usain Bolt won... but the 2nd and 3rd place guys got DQ'd because of taking a step outside their lane... that didn't interfere with anyone. No... I don't view the guys who actually got the silver and bronze medals as deserving them. They couldn't win it on the track. (and this was 2 US guys ending up with silver and bronze).
Thor won. But in my mind (and the minds of many others), it wasn't deserved, and more then the US atheletes in the 200 meters deserved their medals.
That is all circumstances. If Hushovd had more help from his teammates, he most likely would have had more points. If he wasn't hindered before the sprint at Champs-Élysées, he most likely would have had more points. Cavendish didn't beat all those other sprinters on his own. He had a whole team to help him. |
| |
|
