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Attributes Guide
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 21-07-2013 14:25
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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klysa93 wrote:
So how important is Stamina for GC riders? Most GC riders are on 70-75 on STA, atleast in 2015 in this DB. So If I get a rider with 80+STA how much different is that from guys on 70-75?
I would say for 190-200km long stages stamina isn't that important for GC riders, but if it's already a 230km stage a low stamina GC cyclist gonna spend more energy to stay in peloton(after 165km~) than his higher stamina rivals meaning he may suffer on the last mountain and top of it his speed is going to be lower thanks to his stamina too. At 186km on flat at same effort speed difference is 1 km/h for example between 50 and 85 stamina so not that much(screen at post #15).
Edited by Kaimelar on 21-07-2013 14:26
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 21-07-2013 14:28
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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You also have to look at how Cyanide decided the stats. If you look at official release, you'll see the highest STA riders are mostly for one-day specialists. So I guess it's mostly important in long classics. |
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| BritPCMFan |
Posted on 21-07-2013 15:58
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Stagiare
Posts: 245
Joined: 03-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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The more KM over 170, the more important it gets since thats when its triggered. Obviously, 171km is isnt going to matter. 230k is prolly a fair guess at when it becomes really most important (although again, with equal other stats you would notice it sooner. |
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 22-07-2013 14:43
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 898
Joined: 17-11-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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BritPCMFan wrote:
Obviously, 171km is isnt going to matter.
I've thought about this. What about sprint races that are 171-172km long? Technically, the speed boost the STA stat gives could perhaps improve the top speed of high-STA sprinters in these last 2 kilometers, making them edge out in a 171-172 km sprint? |
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 22-07-2013 14:43
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 898
Joined: 17-11-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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---double post due to browser lag, sorry!---
Edited by ShortsNL on 22-07-2013 15:26
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| Lachi |
Posted on 22-07-2013 14:51
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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I never tested it but if I would have programmed it, I would have made it progressive (impact increases for every km after 170) to prevent that 2km can change the race outcome. |
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 22-07-2013 17:23
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Lachi wrote:
I never tested it but if I would have programmed it, I would have made it progressive (impact increases for every km after 170) to prevent that 2km can change the race outcome.
It is progressive, just did some tests about the subject, going to do much more tomorrow but let me post the early results: 85 vs 50 STA on 40 effort 170km same speed; 180,190 1km/h; 200,210,220 2km/h; 230,240 3km/h; 250,260,270 4km/h difference.
Just a note as I said higher STA means higher speed is true but to be exact 85 STA gives no speed reduction while the lower the STA is the greater the reduction is, anyway I did these early tests on a 390km long flat stage with 0 wind power setting (ingame still shows 0-3~ wind ). I can't say the speed differences are accurate (only run the test 3 times) but pretty close needs more testing
Edited by Kaimelar on 23-07-2013 18:11
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| mat4404 |
Posted on 22-07-2013 18:48
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Under 23
Posts: 81
Joined: 05-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Kaimelar wrote:
Lachi wrote:
I never tested it but if I would have programmed it, I would have made it progressive (impact increases for every km after 170) to prevent that 2km can change the race outcome.
It is progressive, just did some tests about the subject, going to do much more tomorrow but let me post the early results: 85 vs 50 STA on 40 effort 170km same speed; 180,190 1km/h; 200,210,220 2km/h; 230,240 3km/h; 250,260,270 4km/h difference.
Just a note as I said higher STA means higher speed is true but to be exact 85 STA gives no speed reduction while the lower the STA is the greater the reduction is (updated the guide with that info), anyway I did these early tests on a 390km long flat stage with 0 wind power setting (ingame still shows 0-3~ wind ). I can't say the speed differences are accurate (only run the test 3 times) but pretty close needs more testing
Do the effects of Stamina only kick in at 170 km or are they predetermined for the entire race. For example a race 185km long, would an 85 STA rider ride 1km/h quicker than a 50 STA rider both riding at 40 dot for the entire course or just from kms 170 to 185? |
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 22-07-2013 19:17
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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mat4404 wrote:
Do the effects of Stamina only kick in at 170 km or are they predetermined for the entire race. For example a race 185km long, would an 85 STA rider ride 1km/h quicker than a 50 STA rider both riding at 40 dot for the entire course or just from kms 170 to 185?
It kicks in around 160-170 but difference is less than 1km/h, until 160km~ STA means nothing |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 23:44
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Bot Agent
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Joined: 23.11.09
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| alex-sonic |
Posted on 24-07-2013 12:09
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 303
Joined: 04-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Thanks kaimelar for the test
But RES seems to be more effective from REC point of view, because the more you are in the breakaway, less energy you have in the next day because you pay it and have less yellow bar.
If you want to attack you have less yellow bar, so less resistance so you can't attack as longer as a rider who has big REC
don't know if I explain weel |
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 24-07-2013 14:32
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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alex-sonic wrote:
Thanks kaimelar for the test
But RES seems to be more effective from REC point of view, because the more you are in the breakaway, less energy you have in the next day because you pay it and have less yellow bar.
If you want to attack you have less yellow bar, so less resistance so you can't attack as longer as a rider who has big REC
don't know if I explain weel
I think i know what you mean, yes freshness(REC) not only decides green but yellow and red bar too in PCM13, so yes there could be a point when REC becomes more relevant than RES for stage races(yellow bar point of view), but the problem is RES doesn't work at the moment and we don't know how much impact it's going to have. |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 24-07-2013 17:27
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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So it seem cyanide fixed finally acc as a Real acceleration, since pcm2006, but they turned off res. I play pcm since 2004 and i can say that cyanide put 1 bug on stats each year, to have a big fix for next year. I am sure 100% that cya dont fix res in this release, so i will not buy thegame this year too. They are idiots to generate these Big bug. |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 24-07-2013 20:31
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Kaimelar wrote:
Resistance: Has no effect in 3D mode for human players, have impact on simulation especially on mountain stages; used to effect yellow bar consumption in previous versions; Cyanide should fix it
try to do as follow:
set 4 raiders with res 80 and 4 riders res 60, the others attributes 65
pay attenction if when the yellow bar is low the riders with RES 80 save more red bar. use short delay not free effort pls
let me know ur results
Edited by sobrano on 24-07-2013 20:52
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 24-07-2013 22:05
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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sobrano wrote:
try to do as follow:
set 4 raiders with res 80 and 4 riders res 60, the others attributes 65
pay attenction if when the yellow bar is low the riders with RES 80 save more red bar. use short delay not free effort pls
let me know ur results
Well first there's a normal 1 vs 1, 1st burned them with 72, 2nd rested them with 30, 3rd kept resting them, 4th attack, 5th rest again.
Secondly with relay 1 vs 1 no difference between effort or relay in this case; under that a 2(60) vs 2(80) relay, burning then resting; at the right side 1 big group relaying it shows randomness so it's not accurate enough for testing but shows RES means nothing.
During the 2 vs 2 test, time difference between the 2 group didn't change.
Everyone had same attributes(70) only RES different, testing was done on a flat 0% stage with minimal wind, also deactivated daily form and rider variables.
Edited by Kaimelar on 24-07-2013 22:09
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| sobrano |
Posted on 24-07-2013 22:55
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Kaimelar wrote:
sobrano wrote:
try to do as follow:
set 4 raiders with res 80 and 4 riders res 60, the others attributes 65
pay attenction if when the yellow bar is low the riders with RES 80 save more red bar. use short delay not free effort pls
let me know ur results
Well first there's a normal 1 vs 1, 1st burned them with 72, 2nd rested them with 30, 3rd kept resting them, 4th attack, 5th rest again.
Secondly with relay 1 vs 1 no difference between effort or relay in this case; under that a 2(60) vs 2(80) relay, burning then resting; at the right side 1 big group relaying it shows randomness so it's not accurate enough for testing but shows RES means nothing.
During the 2 vs 2 test, time difference between the 2 group didn't change.
Everyone had same attributes(70) only RES different, testing was done on a flat 0% stage with minimal wind, also deactivated daily form and rider variables.
ok so it doesnt work, this is the biggest bug that i never seen.
did u inform cyanide? |
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 25-07-2013 10:33
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 898
Joined: 17-11-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Just a suggestion Kaimelar:
Have you tried testing RES in TT-mode?
I'm not sure but I was always under the impression that the TT bar was somehow influenced by RES, as strong TT-ers always got high RES as well. |
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 25-07-2013 11:29
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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sobrano wrote:
ok so it doesnt work, this is the biggest bug that i never seen.
did u inform cyanide?
I tried to contact Eyolfur but he doesn't reply to me for 1-2 weeks already so people who knows him or some cyanide staff should contact them, but I think (hope) someone already told them that.
ShortsNL wrote:
Just a suggestion Kaimelar:
Have you tried testing RES in TT-mode?
I'm not sure but I was always under the impression that the TT bar was somehow influenced by RES, as strong TT-ers always got high RES as well.
I tried that back then with no result but I did test it again for you, result:
1 Imanol Erviti Movistar Team 47'42
2 Guy Big Movistar Team s.t.
3 José Iván Gutierrez Movistar Team + 1
4 Francisco Ventoso Movistar Team + 2
5 Guy Small Movistar Team s.t.
6 Rubén Plaza Movistar Team s.t.
7 José Herrada Movistar Team s.t.
8 Angel Madrazo Movistar Team + 3
33km TT, 4 60 and 4 80 RES cyclists, no difference showing(first and last guy was 80 RES too). |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 25-07-2013 11:31
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Awful 
Maybe a guy more known on PCM communities etc. (f.e. a Mod) can contact Cyanide, maybe Eyolfur listens to him...
Edited by Jesleyh on 25-07-2013 11:31
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| sobrano |
Posted on 25-07-2013 11:35
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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ShortsNL wrote:
Just a suggestion Kaimelar:
Have you tried testing RES in TT-mode?
I'm not sure but I was always under the impression that the TT bar was somehow influenced by RES, as strong TT-ers always got high RES as well.
the point is:
RES should work in all races not only in TT, but i think it is disabled in TT too
Edited by sobrano on 25-07-2013 11:36
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 25-07-2013 12:39
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 898
Joined: 17-11-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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sobrano wrote:the point is:
RES should work in all races not only in TT, but i think it is disabled in TT too
Yeah, that's why I suggested a test in a TT as well, on top of the thoroughly tested road race setting |
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