I don't think Boonen's cobble should be dropped, he's still the 2nd best cobble rider imo. Cancellara has better flat,hill, endurance and resistance. There's no real need to make the cobble difference between the two bigger than it is.
Not sure what to say about Ballan though, before this spring, I considered him the 3rd best cobbler, but Vanmarcke seems to be better now.
After that, there's alot that are close together like Chavanel, Terpstra, Sagan, Van Avermaet, Flecha, Langeveld etc..
Ollfardh wrote:
I don't think Boonen's cobble should be dropped, he's still the 2nd best cobble rider imo. Cancellara has better flat,hill, endurance and resistance. There's no real need to make the cobble difference between the two bigger than it is.
Not sure what to say about Ballan though, before this spring, I considered him the 3rd best cobbler, but Vanmarcke seems to be better now.
After that, there's alot that are close together like Chavanel, Terpstra, Sagan, Van Avermaet, Flecha, Langeveld etc..
Hey, Boonen & Cancellara are now both on 81COB, you know
80 COB would make Boonen the 2nd best COB rider, instead of shared best
Ollfardh wrote:
I don't think Boonen's cobble should be dropped, he's still the 2nd best cobble rider imo. Cancellara has better flat,hill, endurance and resistance. There's no real need to make the cobble difference between the two bigger than it is.
Not sure what to say about Ballan though, before this spring, I considered him the 3rd best cobbler, but Vanmarcke seems to be better now.
After that, there's alot that are close together like Chavanel, Terpstra, Sagan, Van Avermaet, Flecha, Langeveld etc..
Hey, Boonen & Cancellara are now both on 81COB, you know
80 COB would make Boonen the 2nd best COB rider, instead of shared best
I agree with the rest though.
Ah, still looking at older stats then
But I'd rather up Cancellara to 82 than drop Boonen to 80
Would rather up Cancellara than drop Boonen for sure, based off of past results. We don't just go off the most reason season, and in 2012 Boonen destroyed everyone!!! You cannot ignore that!
This year Cancellara was clearly best on the cobbles, with a group of 3-5 riders at a similar level to each other behind, and to separate the best you have to look at past results and age.
Ballan is over the hill so could take a drop. But Vanmarcke is just coming through so could either take an increase in CB or in Potential.
And as always... WHY DISCUSS WELL KNOWN RIDERS!! ALAKAGOM KNOWS THESE GUYS AND RACE VERY VERY WELL!!! HE NEEDS HELP WITH THOSE HE DOES NOT KNOW AS WELL
TheManxMissile wrote:
WHY DISCUSS WELL KNOWN RIDERS!! ALAKAGOM KNOWS THESE GUYS AND RACE VERY VERY WELL!!! HE NEEDS HELP WITH THOSE HE DOES NOT KNOW AS WELL
Because stats of well known riders aren't realistic?
At the end, title says "PCM.daily Real Name DB Stats discussion" , not "PCM.daily Real Name DB Stats discussion about not-well known riders (since Alakagom knows well known riders and their abilities,stats...)"
TheManxMissile wrote:
WHY DISCUSS WELL KNOWN RIDERS!! ALAKAGOM KNOWS THESE GUYS AND RACE VERY VERY WELL!!! HE NEEDS HELP WITH THOSE HE DOES NOT KNOW AS WELL
Because stats of well known riders aren't realistic?
At the end, title says "PCM.daily Real Name DB Stats discussion" , not "PCM.daily Real Name DB Stats discussion about not-well known riders (since Alakagom knows well known riders and their abilities,stats...)"
True, but this is where personal opinion comes in. Everyone has their own opinion about who is better than who and who deserves what.
For example i believe Cavendish should get 85/85 for SP and that Sagan should get all 50's. Jesl believes Gesink is God and Kelderman should get 85's everywhere.
We can both put forward arguements for why we are right and the other person is wrong, and will never agree.
Alakagom, who makes these stats in the end, watches a fuck lot of cycling and follows all the biggest races and riders. He knows who gets what results and who is good and talented etc. He makes balanced stats that make for good gameplay and development (on the whole).
However he will not know everything about Continental level. He may not know all the performances of the British domestic riders in the DB, or the Belgians etc. And these are the ones where he needs help.
Of course we could all argue all day every day about whether Gesink should be dropped, whether Ballan is better than Pozzo etc. but we will never agree because a lot of it is just personal opinions and preferences. Please point out a ride in the WT whos stats are not realistic and we can debate about him, but (admitedly i am yet to look at this latest DB but i have faith in Alak) i doubt it.
The most likely changes are to come in those lower levels, where you can make a real difference to the game yourself. And of course all these +1/-1 changes can be made in your own game.
.... that was serious, so... bingo boingo chocolate tities...
admirschleck wrote:
No. He would be just too strong then.
Cancellara - 81
Boonen and Vanmarcke - 80
Others - 79 and >
Cancellara is just too strong. We should go for realism, even if it makes him very hard to beat. Cause that's what he is.
So yeah
Cancellara - 82
Boonen - 81
Vanmarcke - 80
Others - 79 and >
And I already gave some suggestions for lesser known riders earlier on
If Cancellara gets 82 he will just destroy and win everything. I mean if he gets 2 or even 3 + points in COB stat over riders like Sagan , Roelands , Stybar , Vanmarcke he will beat them with like 2-3 minutes , and that's not what happened in real life . He should be 81 COB , that means he is the best in the world , he also has the biggest END , RES and FL , in these way the riders mentioned above still have a chance of staying with him on cobbles .
Hysetryne1908 wrote:
Mustafa Sayars stats are way to low. Especially in Mountain and Hill.
He will be suspended for doping anyway
But yeah, I agree, though they probably forgot to update him.
Btw guys, some others:
- Ross Edgar way too high(to me)
- Edgar Pinto way too high
- Cesar Veloso way, way too high
- Nuno Ribeiro way too high
- Hamelink's TT too high
- De Vries' TT too low
- Wilkinson slightly too high
- Golcer too high
- Baggio slightly too high
- Bosisio too high
- Holohan too high
- A. Duran too high
Since a lot of guys make suggestions about riders who are too low, I think a few suggestions about riders that should go down is a good idea
I've been following most of the threads concerning the new stats and I think the two main issues here are just how realistic do gamers want these stats to be, as opposed to making the game more even and interesting to play. I noticed on Jesley's stats that he had originally put Froome at 82 in the mountains (which I think he should be) but then I think I read that in a TdF mountain stage he just rode away and put several minutes into the rest of the main contenders, which is probably not so realistic and for that reason was considering dropping him down a point or two (which would be better for gameplay).
I also agree with the person that said Tony Martin shouldn't have two point advantage over the rest in TT, but that could be rectified by putting Wiggins on 82 in TT which makes up for his lower 78 mountain skills.
Cancellara is clearly the best cobbler but I don't think his advantage should be that huge and 82 sounds good, his real strength though are his flat skills between cobble stages where he increases the advantage that he already has. Also it's hard to judge riders like Boonen and Ballan who have missed a lot of racing through injury etc and I think Vanmarcke at 80 on cobbles possibly generous, because that is based on his great Paris-Roubaix, but then we could say the same about Stybar and Vandenbergh who had they not crashed could've been up there with both Cancellara and Vanmarcke at the end. Also I don't see Vanmarcke a whole lot better than all the cobblers just below him like Roelandts and the rest.
In sprinting Cavendish is surely the guy to beat and I think he should be at his own on 83 at least, being high in sprinting is not like the other disciplines as riders crash and get blocked all the time, so the advantage is not that great.
On the hills Gilbert is an issue, in the Ardennes classics he lacked punch and I think I've seen him at 81 on Jesley's db, way too high.
Finally, I'm still waiting for my PCM13 to be delivered but have seen streaming of it etc and am in two minds whether to download Jesley's database or the PCM daily one. I have the PCM12 from last year which I'm used to but Jesley's one does look good, any preferences from regular players on the databases overall?
Also it might be a good idea to separate these stat discussions into different threads, covering the main ones: Mountains, Hills, Time-Trial, Sprinting
and Cobbles. Otherwise they end up getting so jumbled.
That's true TMM, made me laugh for few moments. So, few suggestions.
Mugerli should get (pretty big) SP boost.
Fajt should get at least 70-70 mo/hil.
Rogina is just perfect.
Gorenc needs boost in absolutely every stat. (+1/+2 max!)
That's pretty much what i know,from guys from database. If DB has Meridiana - Kamen (please,guys,please add it, at the end it's Italian team with whole Italian staff and ITA + CRO + GER riders) i could help a lot with stats.
My opinion on some of the British domestic riders. Obviously, if you disagree, that's fine
Madison Genesis
Holohan is not really a pure sprinter, more of an attacking punchy rider, like a very poor Gilbert! SP>68/69, HIL>68, FTR>68/69 Peters deserves a flat boost. He is a pretty strong rouleur, maybe 66/67, plus a slight increase in RES and SP, got a decent result in a couple of bunch sprints in the Tour Series, maybe 63? Pullar is a better rider than Townshend. His STA + RES should be raised to mid 60's and his HIL to at least 66. (He's the national hillclimb champion.) Townshend should have a slight drop in his secondary stats as well imo. Dean Downing should take a small drop in HIL and STA. He's definitely on the decline but is still fairly quick when he gets the chance to show it.
Finally, I'm not entirely sure but it seems to me that Bibby is concentrating more on his climbing and doesn't seem to be as strong on the flat anymore. Maybe a drop in his SP and PRL?
Raleigh
Briggs is really not that quick is he??! SP + ACC>70/71 Scully needs a big boost. He was the strongest rider out of everyone in the Tour Series. FL>69, FTR>69, RES>65/66, HIL>60 and maybe slightly higher ACC.
Rapha Condor Clancy is quick but not 74, I would say SP>72, with about 70 ACC. He takes a long time to get up to speed. TT is about right but I would imagine, being a track rider that his RES should be higher than his STA, no? House needs an increase in his COB, to about 64. Cuming is one of the biggest talents in Britain and probably needs a small increase in his climbing stats. He just won the Tour de Korea. I also think there is a duplicate in the database, who should be deleted.
IG-Sigma Sport Edgar's stats are fine. As long as his HIL and other secondary stats stay low, he's fine. He was one of the quickest track sprinters, don't forget. If anything, you could increase his ACC.
I don't know why Cronshaw's FTR stat is so high, I would lower that and increase his PRL slightly
UK Youth Opie is quicker than Wilkinson. Wilkinson should be 71SP and 71ACC, with a decrease in HIL. Opie to 73 SP and a general increase across the board. FL>68, HIL>67, RES>65. Gustavsson is horribly underrated. He's one of the strongest riders on the domestic scene. FL>69/70. Much higher RES + STA. Not sure about his time trialling but his SP and ACC to lower-mid 60's and slightly better HIL. Probably 63/64.
Don't know too much about Node 4 but Van Uden needs a FL and RES boost.
Frend (An Post) is a pure climber. His FL needs to be lowered to around 58 and his SP aswell. Slightly higher in HIL than MO because he did ok in Algarve earlier this year and I'm not sure he climbs too many mountains! HIL>66, STA>62.
Hammond, Lloyd and Fleeman have retired and need to be deleted. Ideally, they need to be replaced by Simon Yates, Owain Doull and Sam Harrison, who are all promising youngsters.
Edmondson is spelt wrong!
Why has Kennaugh's sprint been lowered? He is a quick finisher from a small group with his track background. Should be put back up to 65/66. Swift should have a slight increase in his TT.
@Tafiolmo
Gilbert is on 80 in my DB, which makes him shared 2nd-best, instead of Shared-best in the Daily DB.
Anyway, this thread is for PCMdaily DB suggestions, not on comparing my DB with the PCMdaily DB.
And it isn't the meaning of this thread to discuss the big guys anyway, so it's not smart to seperate these discussions I guess.
@Brewers These seem spot on, though I just dislike track sprinters who do nothing in .2/.1 races, but still get 71+ SP.
Opie 73SP seems a bit too much though.
Edited by Jesleyh on 26-06-2013 16:08
Jesleyh wrote:
@Brewers These seem spot on, though I just dislike track sprinters who do nothing in .2/.1 races, but still get 71+ SP.
Opie 73SP seems a bit too much though.
Yeah, you might be right! Well maybe 72 then but he is one of the quickest sprinters on the British scene. He won a bunch sprint in the Tour Series against all the other sprinters, Clancy, Downing, Briggs etc.
And for the love of god, stop spamming the stat discussion thread with arguments about Froome/Contador and Boonen/Cancellara!! Do you reallly think Alak needs your opinion on the top riders? This is meant to be for the unknown riders from the smaller teams. Looking at the current database, we need some stats for Garneau and a lot of the small German/Scandinavian teams.
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
