Ian Butler wrote:
He did win, I'm not arguing you, btw. I'm just saying it's different from winning there and then.
First, like Alakagom said: the experience is different.
Second, it's just erasing the winner, the race would've been different if Contador hadn't been there from the start. Schleck rode 2nd place, but he won.
You understand what I'm saying? I'm not disrespecting anyone in any way, just saying it's a different thing, riding for 2nd place and then winning 2 years later.
Btw, that's probably why Schleck doesn't train as much as he's supposed to. It doesn't matter where he finishes, he gets the win anyway a couple of years later
They found he was positive on the 2nd rest day, so we would more have had a scenario as in 2007, and he would have won with eaze. And im not saying that ur disrespectfull, but I keep to to the facts, and that were that Contador did not win the 2010 Tour
Or, he did win, but he's not the winner
And I'm the first to admit that Schleck has some real talent going up a mountain, there's no denying that! Only too bad he sucks at TT
Ian Butler wrote:
He did win, I'm not arguing you, btw. I'm just saying it's different from winning there and then.
First, like Alakagom said: the experience is different.
Second, it's just erasing the winner, the race would've been different if Contador hadn't been there from the start. Schleck rode 2nd place, but he won.
You understand what I'm saying? I'm not disrespecting anyone in any way, just saying it's a different thing, riding for 2nd place and then winning 2 years later.
Btw, that's probably why Schleck doesn't train as much as he's supposed to. It doesn't matter where he finishes, he gets the win anyway a couple of years later
They found he was positive on the 2nd rest day, so we would more have had a scenario as in 2007, and he would have won with eaze. And im not saying that ur disrespectfull, but I keep to to the facts, and that were that Contador did not win the 2010 Tour
Or, he did win, but he's not the winner
And I'm the first to admit that Schleck has some real talent going up a mountain, there's no denying that! Only too bad he sucks at TT
He's actually not that bad in loong time trails, only there was last year just Cadel who was a bit better
Edited by xmaniacxx on 03-06-2012 21:00
Cadel is a strong TT rider, no denying that. Though I believe Schleck's a bit better uphill, I could be wrong, though. I hope we'll see a duel this year, to end all discussion!
ima bet all my PCM$ on wiggings this year bcus of all time trail km's. Im expecting a rather boring duel between Cadel and Bradly. I think Cadel is slightly better upphill, whie Bradly is better in the time trails
Ian Butler wrote:
I agree with Ruben.
I hope that for the 100th edition of TDF next year, they'll make one hell of a parcours.
I heard rumors that there will be a mtt on Mt. Ventoux
I hope the rumors are true. Ventoux is a real beast,
with all due respect to Mr. Wiggins, but on a Ventoux he wouldn't stand a chance against the likes of Contador, or Schleck.
1. Jean-François Bernard
2. Lucho Herrera +1m39s
3. Pedro Delgado +1m51s
4. Fabio Parra +2m04s
5. Stephen Roche +2m19s
Bernard was 25 years old, riding his first tour as leader, and was considered the next great stage racer, after riding for the great Hinault as a domestique.
He destroyed a star studded field. Absolutely annihilated them.
The next day, he was attacked while he had a flat, and then had to wait while the entire peloton went through a narrow bridge while Roche and Mottet rode like hell to leave him behind. (Yes, Roche not only won the Giro by going against his team leader and attacking him, he won the Tour in a much less fair and deserving way that same year)
He lost several minutes that day, and a Tour that he should've easily won.
To give you an idea what a complete rider he was, he didn't just humiliate the field on the Ventoux climb. He also put nearly two minutes into the 2nd place rider on a flat time trial of only 38kms.
But no matter, he'd come back to win the next year at age 26, right?
Nope. Fate was cruel to him. At the next year's Giro he crashed in an unlit tunnel and suffered back and knee injuries that he never recovered from.
He was never again anywhere near the same rider....yet he was still good enough to win Paris-Nice despite the constant pain. That's how good he was. Now imagine how good he could've been.
Edited by issoisso on 03-06-2012 21:52
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
I hate to backtrack to an earlier discussion (Andy Schleck), but .....get the irony of this......he just criticized Bruyneel in the press because Bruyneel criticized Frank in the press, and according to Andy that should be done in private
If there's anything that shows he doesn't consider that the rules for other people also apply to him, this is it!
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
issoisso wrote:
I hate to backtrack to an earlier discussion (Andy Schleck), but .....get the irony of this......he just criticized Bruyneel in the press because Bruyneel criticized Frank in the press, and according to Andy that should be done in private
If there's anything that shows he doesn't consider that the rules for other people also apply to him, this is it!
To be honest, if I was Bruyneel, I'd be frustrated as well. You have a two (extremely) talented riders, -but wait a minute - where are those results?...
nice cycling lesson..
this one takes over a theme..who won realy 2010 TdF..history books say something else that real cycling fans remembers . Now Roche story..thos os great stuff do know..as how good Beloki was before that tour crash.
Why do most people here think Andy is a total d*ckhead?
As I am a fan of him...
People dislike him for 2 reasons (not my reasons, just the ones I heard: )
1. arrogance
2. he only focusses on TDF, doesn't do anything else.
I kind of agree on the 2nd reason, and I wouldn't know about the 1st reason. I thought he looked quite friendly, but I don't know him enough to be sure, so that doesn't matter for me.
I don't have anything against him, I like seeing him battle Contador (another disliked rider lately), but I don't like the way he and his btother ride, they should make Andy leader and let Fränk ride for him, instead of riding together.
Why do most people here think Andy is a total d*ckhead?
As I am a fan of him...
I wrote a kind of scathing post on him in a private forum on another site. It's basically a long long post describing all the reasons.
Here it is, but it's with spoilers because if you're a fan you're not going to like it. Sorry.
Spoiler
With Andy it's always someone else's fault.
At the 2007 Giro it was Di Luca's team's fault for being stronger in the TTT. The fact that Di Luca beat him up every single climb is apparently irrelevant.
At the 2008 Tour it was Sastre's fault for attacking at Alpe d'Huez. Apparently the fact that that was exactly the team's plan pre-stage is irrelevant, as is the fact that Sastre specifically did not attack on the Bonette climb when Frank asked him not to.
At the 2009 Tour it was the motorbikes' fault for supposedly pacing Contador up the climbs in Andorra, Verbier and the time trial. Apparently that's the only reason that Andy lost any time.
At the 2010 Tour it was Contador's fault for attacking while Andy's chain had dropped. Apparently the fact that Andy then lost considerably more time on the descent is irrelevant. Andy also doesn't see a problem with crying foul at the loss of these seconds despite it being pretty much the exact same way that he won nearly two minutes on everyone else on the cobbles stage by attacking when everyone else was caught behind a crash, and despite the peloton giving him a break and slowing down to let him back on when he was 8 minutes down and out on the Spa stage. The time he lost in the prologue also doesn't exist, because as Andy put it, the time he lost with the dropped chain "was the only time I ever lost to Contador"
At the 2010 Vuelta it was Bjarne Riis's fault for "being unreasonable" and kicking him out of the race just because he was out drinking until 3 am and came back to the hotel loud and intoxicated. Apparently that's perfectly acceptable behaviour for a professional in the middle of one of the biggest races of the season.
At the 2011 Tour it was the route's fault because apparently bike racers aren't supposed to need any bike handling skills and descents apparently aren't supposed to affect races.
For the last 3 years it's been the other contenders' fault for not attacking because apparently the Schlecks have been the only ones who have attacked at the Tour in this period of time, and they didn't make any tactical mistakes at all.
(For those in disbelief, yes, the Schleck brothers really have claimed every single one of these mind-meltingly ridiculous things)
According to Andy, the fact that he's a one dimensional rider who has only one single skill (climbing) and is average to bad at time trialling, flat riding, navigating the cobbles, tactical intelligence, managing a breakaway, sprinting or any other skill a bike rider should have, is irrelevant. According to Andy, it's definitely not his fault that he's a professional stage racer who's never won a single one of the over 50 stage races in his career despite riding quite literally the 4 Tour de France routes in history best suited to his single skill and despite spending the entire season lounging around making no efforts at races to save himself solely for the Tour while his opponents are going all out and tiring themselves to win both major and minor races all season.
It's not Andy's fault that he can't time trial, because he insists he's been working extremely hard at it damn it.....despite the fact that his own coach Bobby Julich was exhasperated on TV saying that he hasn't been able to get Andy to train on the time trial bike at all.
Nope, none of this is Andy's fault. It's everyone else's fault.
It's also clearly not Andy's fault that so many people with steady jobs are now out on their asses. Most of the staff (mechanics, soigneurs, choaches, etc) at Saxo Bank didn't want to leave for Team Leopard, until he and Frank personally promised them that if they left they would not only get great raises, but the team would exist "for a minimum of 4 years", so they shouldn't be afraid of leaving a secure job at Saxo Bank.
After 9 months, Leopard merged with Radioshack and all those staff were very suddenly unemployed at a late stage in the season when most teams already have all job positions filled for the next year.
Nice going Andy.
Now, if anyone reading this thinks that Andy really believed the team would last for 4 years, I have ocean front land in Switzerland for them to buy for a great price. Andy knew very well because the guy financing the team, Flavio Becca, had made it very clear that he would only fund the team for one season and no longer. It needs to be noted that Andy is a notorious liar. In late 2009 he was already plotting to set the team up with Becca, Cancellara and his brother Frank, as proven by the promotional material they made to attract potential sponsors, that later surfaced, however 6 months later when Riis confronted him asking him if there was any truth to the rumour that they were leaving to set up their own team, Andy strongly denied it.
What a great guy.
After all this, add in the fact that Andy is constantly demeaning other riders, criticizing and personally insulting them (my favourite being insulting one of the most beloved riders in the peloton for having "something wrong in the head" apropos of absolutely nothing), constantly criticizing any technical section of a course just because he doesn't have bike handling skills, and disrespecting the majority of races and cycling's history, and is it any wonder that he's widely hated in the fanbase and inside the peloton?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
Why do most people here think Andy is a total d*ckhead?
As I am a fan of him...
I like him as a rider as well, but to answer for the rest:
- Focusses completely at the TdF, and has never won it (not counting the 2010-one).
- Tends to blame everybody but himself.
- Can only ride well when he's near Fränk (and "won" the 2010-Tour when Fränk had to abandon).
- Sucks in timetrialling.
But there's a lot to tell about any rider. And people love to give their opinion about riders, especially when these are negative...