Nice update you did there.
Personally, i would give Vlasov a +1 in TT and would decrease Remco's COB in order to represent his poor bike handling better, other than that I think it is pretty much on point excluding some topics that were previously discussed.
King_Ric wrote:
Nice update you did there.
Personally, i would give Vlasov a +1 in TT and would decrease Remco's COB in order to represent his poor bike handling better, other than that I think it is pretty much on point excluding some topics that were previously discussed.
You are right about Vlasov and that was an oversight by me and have put him to 74/75 and +1 to his flat as well.
Tafiolmo wrote:
Thanks for the mtn stat suggestions post Giro and we have almost finished the Giro update but I can tell you that there have been no real major changes for those riders at the top but bear in mind that since we are giving out more 83 and 82 stats overall now more riders below this will be higher as well and as always riders who did well last year such as Hindley but no good this year still keep their stats for now. In fact most of the stat work has been more about back-ups which we continue to focus on more than the main stats. Like who is a really good acc rider in the mtns like Bernal or terrible one like Buchmann. Which riders when they attack tend to stay away and which ones don't like Quintana etc.
Personally I think MVDP has the correct hill stat given his amazing res and acc stats and the examples given by Hooligan are credible examples but races like Ronde don't really need a high hill stat to win and Strade is commonly won by cobbled classic riders over the years as well and let us just say the the AGR was a +5 day anyway. I also wouldn't read too much with his accelaration over Alaphilippe on the final climb at SB either as this was no Mur and an early season race and not a more serious climb. MVDP with his amazing back-ups is going to feel so much better anyway than his 79 hill and if anything he might need a mtn boost at most (we will look at this) and move him more in the direction of a rider like Mohoric in terms of a mtn stat. I don't think the comparison to Ulissi and Cosnefroy is a fair one as these compared to MVDP are one trick ponies and don't have his all round abilities.
I also think Remco is well statted especially since we have now given Almeida from that team a higher mtn stat. Remco had far too much expectation on him for the Giro and really it was no more than a return race after so much time out. Before we think about lowering his stats more races would be needed.
Nibali has been decreased to 78 and Ciccone increased to 79 so Ciccone should be team leader from Trek and Caruso has been increased to 80. Caruso also has the benefit of Giro now being in fav races and nat bonus (if that works) and he already had high res and rec which I think is now 81.
The hardest has been Bernal to stat. Has shown he is better than expected on shorter mtns and if he did indeed have back problems and won despite of this he has justified his 83 mtn but if no back problem was there then there is more of a debate of whether he should be 82 or 83.
Your argument for why my three examples are the way they are seems logical but I think miss the mark slightly.
While I agree MvdP has excellent back up stats, that alone is not the end all be all, just like the main stats aren't. Unfortunately with how PCM works, the hill stat is only used when effort is 85 or higher (starting from 3% and higher incline) That means that for a lot of the race, the hill stat isn't used at all. Outside of sprinting, its the most useless main stat, since we all know the most efficient way to play the game is to stay under 85 effort so we don't burn the bar.
With that in mind, with his mountain stat being so low compared to other hill riders, as it should be, he's not good on longer climbs, I believe he'll struggle to achieve the same things in game, as he did in real life.
My opinion currently is that he's the fastest guy up hill in climbs that are either not too steep or not too long. Your argument about Strade sprint not being comparable to Mur is only partially correct, While the mur is 1.3k at 9.6% the Sienne climb is 500 meters at 12.4%. Acceleration stat will help with that, but so does the hill stat, as the former usually only works while sprinting or attacking, while the latter will help throughout the race when effort is above 85.
The problem stems from the fact that hill stat simply isn't a hill stat, it's name is misleading, hill stat in game is simply who can ride the longest/fastest at near their maximum wattage. In that regard, I think there are very very few riders who I would place above MvdP.
Back in the day Hill stat would use a stage modifier baked into the stage code to either use more of the Hill stat of a rider or the MTN stat of a rider based on what was coded for that stage. These days MTN stat is the real Hills stat, until you go above 85 effort. But sadly, MTN stat is also the MTN stat... so you cant give riders like pidcock, and vdp high mtn stats, The best way to still represent those riders being able to win hilly stages, is to give them high hill stats, higher than strong climbers.
As for the evenepoel thing. I went in with 0 expectations for him, he actually overperformed the first week and a half ish. My problem with him was if he was actually worth these stats already, given the fact he's only rode for like a season and a half, and before the giro, never in a grand tour. But he was already able to win grand tours with his current stats, especially because of his beastly TT and support stats. (both of which ARE rightfully earned given his results).
My problem there was simply that he had not shown enough in quantity that he earned those MTN stats.
But like I said before, I like the DB, I'm sure that everyone using it will be able to "real life" results. My personal take on these riders, and how to handle them in game just differ on a fundamental level, given on how I feel the Hill, MTN and ACC stat should be used in game.
King Ric- I'm sure you've noticed but there is a fix to the last update out which fixes Vlasov and Remco and has fav races updated that can be downloaded.
Hooligan- Fully understand the points you have made which are all valid and clearly tested by you and as we are now working on the 2021 PCM we can look at this in more detail
Tafiolmo wrote: King Ric- I'm sure you've noticed but there is a fix to the last update out which fixes Vlasov and Remco and has fav races updated that can be downloaded.
Hi All and very sorry for the late reply regarding the stat update. This is largely due to a lack of resources at the moment with the DB Team.
The stats update has now been completed for both PCM 20 and PCM 21 and is just in final testing, so expect a release very shortly. Once again thank you for your patience.
