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Alberto Contador Positive
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| Anonymer |
Posted on 17-02-2011 15:25
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So according to the rules, Ovtcharov (table tennis player) should have been banned too ? |
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| andybandy |
Posted on 17-02-2011 15:30
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Montolivo wrote:
andybandy wrote:
We all know that, but why do we even have trials and CAS if we could just ban every athlete that has a illegal substance in the body at once? A more general note; at one point WADA have to put up treshold levels, it's not like a couple of molecyles clenbuterol per ml should be something to care about.
So every test which shows only limited or small amounts of illegal substances in a athletes body should just pass by whitout any consequences?
That's not what I said... But I do believe WADA should think about a treshold level for clenbuterol when there's a chance for i.e contamination. Just look at other athletes that tested positive for clenbuterol, always levels between 50 and 250 pg/ml. There are treshold for several substances today, for example salbutamol.
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 17-02-2011 15:30
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I'm sorry, but I don't follow table tennis and know very little about his case.
What I remember is that he tested positive in China where the likeliness of clenbuterol contamination is a lot (and I really mean a lot!) higher than in Europe.
For example:
The lab carried out an investigation that found that 22 out of 28 travelers returning to Germany from China tested positive for low levels of clenbuterol. The samples were tested between Sept. 15 and Jan. 15.
So there are several points that speak in favour of the table tennis player. In Contador's case, there's zero. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 17-02-2011 15:31
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Tour de France Champion
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andybandy wrote:
Montolivo wrote:
andybandy wrote:
We all know that, but why do we even have trials and CAS if we could just ban every athlete that has a illegal substance in the body at once? A more general note; at one point WADA have to put up treshold levels, it's not like a couple of molecyles clenbuterol per ml should be something to care about.
So every test which shows only limited or small amounts of illegal substances in a athletes body should just pass by whitout any consequences?
That's not what I said... But I do believe WADA should think about a treshold level for clenbuterol when there's a chance for i.e contamination. Just look at other athletes that tested positive for clenbuterol, always levels between 50 and 250 pg/ml. There are treshold for several substances today, for example salbutamol.
Like any other substance with a threshold, salbutamol is produced naturally in your body. Clenbuterol is not. |
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| felix_29 |
Posted on 17-02-2011 15:39
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Anonymer wrote:
So according to the rules, Ovtcharov (table tennis player) should have been banned too ?
He agreed to make a test with his hair to show that he didn´t have any clenbuterol in his body before he ate the meat in China.
Anyone surprised that Contador didn´t do the test?
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 12:15
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| roturn |
Posted on 17-02-2011 16:26
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That`s what I meant. The rules should count for everybody. So Contador and Ovtcharov.
But regional issues like Clenbuterol in China should allow shorter or no bans.
In Ovtcharovs case, even without the hair test it was much more probably than Contador with his Spanish meat.
So strict rules but also having room for other reasons. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 17-02-2011 16:56
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A bit related:
ASOPROVAC, the Spanish Association of Beef Cattle Producers, aren't happy 
The cattle producers accuse Contador of staining the reputation of an entire industry without any evidence in trying to clear his own name.
Alberto Contador has been finally cleared by the Spanish Cycling Federation (RFEC) after presenting a series of allegations to which ASOPROVAC has had access to.
Contador, with impunity, and lacking any truth, puts into question the comprehensive control systems that are applied to beef in the European Union and, therefore, in our country.
... and more which was not translated by the Spanish dude. Original statement in Spanish: https://www.asoprovac.com/Asoprovac/Zo...2a8724697/ |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 17-02-2011 21:10
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The cow is sad, and says she is an example of cleanliness. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 17-02-2011 21:25
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ruben wrote:
Sometimes rules need to be adapted if they are wrong
There is no point in saying well the rules say if there is any trace of X you are guilty, when it is scientifically proven that that amount of X doesn't even have any effect, and that amount of X can only enter the body via contaminated food (or a blood tranfusion gone wrong).
People who always go by the book and by the rules, eventually end up nowhere since they are not moving forward.
Sometimes you need to question the rules...
But clenbuterol has a very short period of detection (a couple of days) but long term effects (it's a steroid).
Thus, if you admit there might be some intelligent doping (always remain below usual thresholds of detection), you cannot expect to find high levels of it.
Of course the level that was found wouldn't improve his performance significantly, but nothing says he was controlled while having his peak of clenbuterol inside his body. It's even very unlikely, given it's a product that's rather used during pre-season of pre-TDF (pre-main objectives) training camps.
And if (it's just a if), riders who transfuse their own blood now do smaller dosages (150 ml every time, instead of 600 a couple of years ago), and if that blood had been taken out (too) soon after a clenbuterol cure, assuming Contador's got more or less 6 litres of blood in his body, that means he had like 40 times that amount of clenbuterol when the blood was pulled out. Not that negligible any more, is it ?
As it's not produced naturally, and as the beef story is not serious, he has most likely used it for cheating purposes anyway.
Edited by Aquarius on 17-02-2011 21:25
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| hyenen2 |
Posted on 18-02-2011 09:33
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According to https://www.feltet.dk/nyheder/anti_dop...egoerelse/ Anti doping Denmark have praised the spanish report, and are inpressed by the work.
Jens Evald is shure after he read the report, that the dicision is based on facts and not felings.
Ps. the link is in danish |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 18-02-2011 11:35
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hyenen2 wrote:
According to https://www.feltet.dk/nyheder/anti_dop...egoerelse/ Anti doping Denmark have praised the spanish report, and are inpressed by the work.
Jens Evald is shure after he read the report, that the dicision is based on facts and not felings.
Ps. the link is in danish Which team is it that Contador is riding for, already ? |
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 18-02-2011 11:50
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Aquarius wrote:
Which team is it that Contador is riding for, already ?
Are you insinuating that they might be influenced by him riding for a danish team?
INCONCEIVABLE SIR!
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| PremierRus91 |
Posted on 18-02-2011 17:35
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Under 23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD-F_v...D-F_vcTZgM
Here, I dedicate this to him and all deceivers
THIS IS AMESWONE VIDEO |
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| hyenen2 |
Posted on 18-02-2011 20:47
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Aquarius wrote:
hyenen2 wrote:
According to https://www.feltet.dk/nyheder/anti_dop...egoerelse/ Anti doping Denmark have praised the spanish report, and are inpressed by the work.
Jens Evald is shure after he read the report, that the dicision is based on facts and not felings.
Ps. the link is in danish Which team is it that Contador is riding for, already ?
Hehe, well i dont think it has anything to do whit nationalism.... or i hope so
Remember Michael Rasmussen???
Edited by hyenen2 on 18-02-2011 20:47
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 18-02-2011 20:56
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hyenen2 wrote:
Hehe, well i dont think it has anything to do whit nationalism.... or i hope so
Remember Michael Rasmussen???
Yeah, but he's not danish you know...
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| hyenen2 |
Posted on 19-02-2011 09:26
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Waghlon wrote:
hyenen2 wrote:
Hehe, well i dont think it has anything to do whit nationalism.... or i hope so
Remember Michael Rasmussen???
Yeah, but he's not danish you know...
He's not???
Hmm im shure i i watched him on danish television, speaking danish
https://en.wikiped..._Rasmussen |
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 19-02-2011 10:41
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Dear hyenen2. I wish I could have some of your childhood naivete. When you ride for a danish team, you are danish. Regardless of your nationality. When you are not, you are not danish enough.
That's how the media and DCU works
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| hyenen2 |
Posted on 19-02-2011 16:13
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Waghlon wrote:
Dear hyenen2. I wish I could have some of your childhood naivete. When you ride for a danish team, you are danish. Regardless of your nationality. When you are not, you are not danish enough.
That's how the media and DCU works
No not naive.....
Just faith in people, hehe |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 19-02-2011 16:42
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In cycling that pretty much equates to the same thing. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 25-02-2011 23:04
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A somewhat interesting insight to the arguments by Contador's lawyer, Andy Ramos:
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/ge...22669.html |
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