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Giro d'Italia 2008 - Live feeds in first post
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 13-05-2008 20:52
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aaah OK
i missed that i just read deadpools quote
he does need to pipe down a bit with that kind of stuff but, being from the track, he may well be the fastest, if not after 200k.
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 13-05-2008 21:24
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issoisso wrote:
This is an example of what I have a problem with 
For sure on paper I am the fastest guy there.
Meaning his results so far this season. And correct me if i'm wrong, but he's wracked up a few wins already this season, compared to the other sprinters i believe he has more. So technically speaking on paper he is the fastest.
Also back to my last "agree to disagree comment", i didn't mean we should class cav as the best just because he won one stage, i was talking about my own personal life. If I won a stage i'd call my life a success.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]  [/url] |
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| Addy291 |
Posted on 13-05-2008 21:25
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That's not really being arrogant, that's knowing what he is good at. It is actually quite probable that he is the "fastest guy there". The only things that let him down are his positioning (although it was good today) and his stamina. He originates from track riding so he needs to be very fast, I wouldn't be suprised if he was the fastest. Only in road racing, stamina plays a huge part and Cav doesn't have that much as of yet.
What I'm trying to say really is that he might very well be the fastest guy there on paper as he said. But throw in things like stamina into the mix and riders like Bennati have the edge. (e.g. Cav is faster than Bennati on paper, but because of Cav's bad stamina and Bennati's good stamina; Bennati is a better sprinter overall.)
I'm not sure if that will get understood really, but I know what I mean
EDIT: he's not saying he's the best sprinter, he's just saying he was the fastest there. To be a good sprinter you need a combination of bravery, positioning, speed, and stamina. To be fast you just need speed.
Cav has speed.
Edited by Addy291 on 13-05-2008 21:28
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| issoisso |
Posted on 13-05-2008 21:29
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rjc_43 wrote:
Meaning his results so far this season. And correct me if i'm wrong, but he's wracked up a few wins already this season, compared to the other sprinters i believe he has more. So technically speaking on paper he is the fastest.
You're deducing something he didn't say. And it would be awfully convenient to deduce his results just this season, especially when for a lot of people the season is just starting 
rjc_43 wrote:
Also back to my last "agree to disagree comment", i didn't mean we should class cav as the best just because he won one stage, i was talking about my own personal life. If I won a stage i'd call my life a success.
Yes, I realised that and that's what I'm "not debating", as I said
Addy291 wrote:
That's not really being arrogant, that's knowing what he is good at. It is actually quite probable that he is the "fastest guy there". The only things that let him down are his positioning (although it was good today) and his stamina. He originates from track riding so he needs to be very fast, I wouldn't be suprised if he was the fastest. Only in road racing, stamina plays a huge part and Cav doesn't have that much as of yet.
What I'm trying to say really is that he might very well be the fastest guy there on paper as he said. But throw in things like stamina into the mix and riders like Bennati have the edge. (e.g. Cav is faster than Bennati on paper, but because of Cav's bad stamina and Bennati's good stamina; Bennati is a better sprinter overall.)
I'm not sure if that will get understood really, but I know what I mean
But a road sprint is always after that distance. That's like me saying I'm faster than the world champion 100m runners because I can beat them if the race is 2 cms long.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Addy291 |
Posted on 13-05-2008 21:35
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Put it this way. The opening TT of Romandie; Cav won because he was the fastest over the short distance. But during the sprints he did nothing because he hasn't got the stamina to last, and therefore isn't a brilliant sprinter, he's a pretty good one, but a top 10 one really, at the moment.
Back to the main point, he said he was the fastest, not the best sprinter.
I'm still not sure that this is coming across as I'm meaning it to, so this post will be my last on the matter as I'm not sure how else to explain my theory into what he was meaning
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| issoisso |
Posted on 13-05-2008 21:39
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It came across fine the first time. All I'm saying is it's irrelevant. It's like a football player saying "I'm the best player in the world if games last 2 minutes". They don't, so it's irrelevant.
Really, can't we all agree he has potential and, like all with potential can be a superstar or a bust and just move on to a discussion where it's easier to find a consensus, such as "Which religion is the right one?", or something
Edited by issoisso on 13-05-2008 21:40
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| mattiasgt |
Posted on 13-05-2008 21:44
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"The Mormons was the right ones."
(Previously) Manager of Koenigsegg
Koenigsegg: ( Media)
Livin' Loud |
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| Addy291 |
Posted on 13-05-2008 22:00
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issoisso wrote:
It came across fine the first time. All I'm saying is it's irrelevant. It's like a football player saying "I'm the best player in the world if games last 2 minutes". They don't, so it's irrelevant.
It really is plainly obvious you didn't get what I was actually meaning from your example
Your football player is symbolising the cyclist.
Your "I'm the best player in the world" would be Cav saying "I'm the best sprinter in the world". He didn't say that.
He said he was the fastest. Time-span is irrelevant.
The sprint is always around 200-300 meters long. The art of sprinting is riding 200kms (stamina), getting into the right position (positioning), being able to bash elbows to keep your position and dive into gaps (bravery), and having the speed to go past riders and finish as high as possible (speed). Being a good sprinter is performed throughout the entirity of the stage.
Being fast is performed only in the final 200-300m. Cav was just saying that he is the fastest over the final meters, he knows he isn't a great sprinter and chose his words wisely. It was just a matter of luck and good riding by his team to ensure he had enough stamina left to show he is the fastest over the final 200-300m. This is why at the moment he will never consistently win stages throughout a stage race. He can't keep enough stamina in every single stage to show his speed in the final few meters because the days before he's had to try so hard to save his energy.
This is also contributing to his bad positioning. If he did have the stamina like Bennati, McEwen etc. then he would consistently be up in the top 5 places at the start of the sprint, and would therefore be a good sprinter. But he isn't a good sprinter, he's just fast. He will be working on his stamina though, so he will be able to become a good sprinter and not just fast.
You just need to actually read/listen to what he says carefully and then once in a while realise he isn't being arrogant, he is just stating what he is good at and not mentioning what he's bad at. "Being the fastest, doesn't mean you're the best sprinter". He just said he was the fastest
Ok, I know I said my previous post was the last one, but I had to get that out I know he can be arrogant sometimes and even then he might have been bigging himself up a bit, saying he is the fastest, but the plain truth is he doesn't think he's the best sprinter, he just thinks he's the fastest.
I've met the lad (only once admittedly) and there is no way he thinks he's the best sprinter at all. He knows he has no stamina, and he's working on it, he just states what he believes is true.
Ok I'll shut up now and watch CSI, whilst people have a go at me for what I've said and me not caring one little bit, because they're my views on what he said and no-one will change my views, because I can see what he said plain as day
EDIT: just in case it does; that was not meant to sound aggressive in any way, by the way
Edited by Addy291 on 13-05-2008 22:03
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 13-05-2008 22:01
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what i all missed..just shortly I hate cocky sportsman...i personaly dont need stupid push up talking..even more in classic sport like cycling..kind of talking should stay in wrestling (that awful fake one) arena |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 14-05-2008 07:20
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Addy291 wrote:
It really is plainly obvious you didn't get what I was actually meaning from your example
No addy, it is yet again you who didn't get it.
Him being the fastest is completely irrelevant because races aren't 200m long. what matters is who is fastest after 200 or so kms, otherwise Iljo Keise and Graeme Brown would be competing for all the sprints.
Hence the football player comparison: it doesn't matter that he's good at x or the best y if x and y never happen. ever.
and then came the rest of your post that just re-hashed all you'd said before.
understood now? 
Edited by issoisso on 14-05-2008 07:20
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| mrlol |
Posted on 14-05-2008 07:48
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Cav got dropped on the climb
anyway, notice how good liguigas is. they got 2 jerseys, a stage and 4 men in the top 10. I think many people underestimate them. (telling me I'm wrong means you are one of those ) |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 27-11-2024 01:50
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| issoisso |
Posted on 14-05-2008 08:05
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mrlol wrote:
Cav got dropped on the climb
anyway, notice how good liguigas is. they got 2 jerseys, a stage and 4 men in the top 10. I think many people underestimate them. (telling me I'm wrong means you are one of those )
you're wrong ( )
It's fashionable to say how underrated Liquigas is this year. Basically everybody's saying they're underrated. So if everybody says that, they can't possibly be underrated
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ember |
Posted on 14-05-2008 08:16
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I think Liquigas is quite a good team. Pellizotti is underrated, and I think he definately will make a top 8 and Nibali will do a top 10 |
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 14-05-2008 12:10
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Nah, its just drugs. Liquigas and drugs, that's all.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk] [/url] |
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| Smitho |
Posted on 14-05-2008 12:43
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Super win for cavendish!! What a rider he is going to be next year! Maybe the green jersey in the tour next year.
Come on Astana in todays stage. Maybe contador could give it a go in last 3km see if it works becasue kloden or levi have not got that acceleration like contador has. It might be J.Rodriguez's day 2day and i know i cant spell his name
Probably see someone like colom have a go though which will be pointless!
COME ON ASTANA!!!B) |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 14-05-2008 12:49
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rjc_43 wrote:
Nah, its just drugs. Liquigas and drugs, that's all. According to this interesting startlist, they're far from the worst team there.
https://www.cyclis...ro2008.htm |
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| Wyman |
Posted on 14-05-2008 12:57
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i rekon its going to be out of di luca, rebelin, ricco, pelizotti, joaquim rodriguez and maybe nibali today, bettini if he is goign better than on sunday, contador might be up there, didn't look to good on sunday oh and maybe savoldelli working for di luca again
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 14-05-2008 13:13
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I vote Rebellin to win, with Bettini second (he'll be pissed), and pelizotti third |
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| KurtinSC |
Posted on 14-05-2008 13:28
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issoisso wrote:
Addy291 wrote:
It really is plainly obvious you didn't get what I was actually meaning from your example
No addy, it is yet again you who didn't get it.
Him being the fastest is completely irrelevant because races aren't 200m long. what matters is who is fastest after 200 or so kms, otherwise Iljo Keise and Graeme Brown would be competing for all the sprints.
Hence the football player comparison: it doesn't matter that he's good at x or the best y if x and y never happen. ever.
and then came the rest of your post that just re-hashed all you'd said before.
understood now?
I agree with Addy on this one.
I was a swimmer. I could say I had the best backstroke of anyone in the race.... the race being a 200 individual medley.
Does that make me the best at that race? Of course not... but the fact I have the best backstroke IS relevant. I'm not claiming to be the best at the 200 IM... I'm just saying I'm the strongest in that portion of it.
For a cyclist to say they have the fastest sprint... that's relevant. Sure they might not have the best stamina to be there at the end, or have the best positioning... but it is relevant. It's not him saying he's the best at a 200m long race... its him saying he's got the best pure speed. And while that isn't the ONLY thing that goes into sprinting at the end of a 150-250km race... it is definitely part of the equation. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 14-05-2008 13:56
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Yeah, Addy seems to be right here, about Cavendish.
First, how would Cavendish know he's the fastest ? He just can't, he may assume it, but he can't know for sure since he is never opposed to them in track sprint events.
What he's implying is that he's the fastest pure speed at the end of stages, and that if he doesn't win it's a matter of bad luck, bad positionning, etc. not a lack of speed.
Is he a bad arrogant loser or an objective analyst ? |
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