This is good for cycling, having this head roll will lead to more and hopefully changes at the UCI. I believe this is only the beginning and will lead to a lot more coming out and cycling to start getting its house in order.
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
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The problem is that.... if UCI appeal to Euro Court of Arbitration for Sport they will probably win. Cos Europe is corrupt. UCI is euro, so they will stick together and stick a big finger up at the americans.
Although... I guess the UCI could argue that all the reports regarding them covering up the test is just hearsay. Its only people saying Lance told them thats what... oh wait, no I forgot the cash payment.
So yeah. The UCI have to appeal and its probably they will win unfortunately. If they dont... It wont be a case of changes. If this sticks, I'm pretty sure you can say goodbye UCI. It will have to be a totally new, fresh body free of the old boys.
The problem is... who could you really trust to run cycling?
Flair wrote:
The problem is that.... if UCI appeal to Euro Court of Arbitration for Sport they will probably win. Cos Europe is corrupt. UCI is euro, so they will stick together and stick a big finger up at the americans.
Although... I guess the UCI could argue that all the reports regarding them covering up the test is just hearsay. Its only people saying Lance told them thats what... oh wait, no I forgot the cash payment.
So yeah. The UCI have to appeal and its probably they will win unfortunately. If they dont... It wont be a case of changes. If this sticks, I'm pretty sure you can say goodbye UCI. It will have to be a totally new, fresh body free of the old boys.
The problem is... who could you really trust to run cycling?
What about that cycling "league" thing Vaughters had talked about a year or so ago? Where teams band together and form some sort of competion. Seems impossible imo though.
What about that cycling "league" thing Vaughters had talked about a year or so ago? Where teams band together and form some sort of competion. Seems impossible imo though.
Yeah, I dont see teams regulating themselves working. Too much vested interest.
EDIT: Maybe a board formed of recent ex-cyclist that are either untainted by PEDs or have reformed and worked against it. Probably some of the guys that have testified in this case. If Millar wasnt competing still he would probably be a good candiate for it too.
I would need to be people with knowledge of how it works, why it happens and how to encourage it not to happen. I fear though its ultimately one of those things that is never going to go away. Unfortuantely cycling suffers heavy from it due to being so endurance based.
Edited by Flair on 11-10-2012 22:11
Still nothing from Lance's camp, and it's now past 5pm on the West Coast.
My judgement has been rendered. Sooner, rather than later, Lance will come forth and admit it. It'll take some work by Bart Knaggs and the PR team to wear him down, but he'll realize it's his best PR move possible.
Deadpool wrote:
Still nothing from Lance's camp, and it's now past 5pm on the West Coast.
My judgement has been rendered. Sooner, rather than later, Lance will come forth and admit it. It'll take some work by Bart Knaggs and the PR team to wear him down, but he'll realize it's his best PR move possible.
If he does admit it, I have to admit it will be a compelling interview to watch/listen to. I also hope he takes time to discuss the whole thing as I think it would be good to hear the entire thing from the horses mouth
Deadpool wrote:
Still nothing from Lance's camp, and it's now past 5pm on the West Coast.
My judgement has been rendered. Sooner, rather than later, Lance will come forth and admit it. It'll take some work by Bart Knaggs and the PR team to wear him down, but he'll realize it's his best PR move possible.
I don't think he will admit it for a very, very long time. If ever. Too much money at stake, plus his reputation. He still has supporters out there who will fight tooth and nail to salvage his reputation and I think that the opinion that he didn't dope is much more prevalent outside of the cycling media. He will carry on IMO.
Deadpool wrote:
Still nothing from Lance's camp, and it's now past 5pm on the West Coast.
My judgement has been rendered. Sooner, rather than later, Lance will come forth and admit it. It'll take some work by Bart Knaggs and the PR team to wear him down, but he'll realize it's his best PR move possible.
I don't think he will admit it for a very, very long time. If ever. Too much money at stake, plus his reputation. He still has supporters out there who will fight tooth and nail to salvage his reputation and I think that the opinion that he didn't dope is much more prevalent outside of the cycling media. He will carry on IMO.
You would have to think that Armstrong will hold out for as long as he can, for some reason he still has people out there who believe what he says so as long as he holds his line he will still have support for brand Armstrong. THe amount that I have read in the last 24 hours and still see people on many websites still prepared to believe in the Armstrong myth makes the mind boggle.
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/
Deadpool wrote:
Still nothing from Lance's camp, and it's now past 5pm on the West Coast.
My judgement has been rendered. Sooner, rather than later, Lance will come forth and admit it. It'll take some work by Bart Knaggs and the PR team to wear him down, but he'll realize it's his best PR move possible.
I don't think he will admit it for a very, very long time. If ever. Too much money at stake, plus his reputation. He still has supporters out there who will fight tooth and nail to salvage his reputation and I think that the opinion that he didn't dope is much more prevalent outside of the cycling media. He will carry on IMO.
He doesn't have a reputation left after this. He has no argument to this. All of his tried and tested excuses, which we all knew were ridiculous, only worked because the general public didn't know the details. Now they do. He has nothing left to fight with.
Here in the US, Lance is seen as cancer fighter first, and cyclist second. He's built up enough goodwill to survive this, if, and only if, he comes clean. The money is at stake, but the other way. If he continues to deny it in face of overwhelming evidence, he'll start becoming an embarrassment. If he comes out and admits what he's done, what he's built with Livestrong will see him through it. Most notably, Trek (who have been disgraced as part of this with the Lemond debacle) and Nike will stand by him. That's the money.
The smart move, in every way, reputation-wise, money-wise, etc., is for him to come clean. Only the fact that he is one stubborn son of a bitch could prevent it (I'd say only MJ is more of a dick in the sports world), but his team is too good and he trusts them too much. It'll happen.
KayZeroX wrote:
The accusations look to be right...but the truth is nobody (on this forum) knows for sure. You're all just quoting what other people are saying. And most of that information is known for a long time. But how do you know it is the truth? Only the people that are involved know with absolute certainty.
Ahh well i'm just a simple man with a rebellious opinion. I can understand why you people keep on attacking my opinions. I have no real facts.
But then again, at this moment, nobody has. It's all about who do you believe. (i think i allready said that in this post, man i can be pretty boring sometimes)
By this optic, we cannot be sure about Darwin theories for example, sure monkeys look like people and act similar, but who the hell of you boys saw a monkey transforming into a human, he?
Many scientist says it is so, but hey, they are just bunch of people with their oppinions.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 12-10-2012 06:24
KayZeroX wrote:
EDIT: I rest my case , good luck all with following the news and lets hope soon Armstrong is gonna be Guilty on using doping or that he was totally clean. Not this "in the middle" situation, with no certainties, wich make many people doubt.
This is not a "middle" situation. Armstrong doped, there are proofs and testimonies to back it up, aswell as the proofs about biggest team doping in history of the sport (well, after USSR and east-german projects).
So deal with it!
Deadpool wrote:
He doesn't have a reputation left after this. He has no argument to this. All of his tried and tested excuses, which we all knew were ridiculous, only worked because the general public didn't know the details. Now they do. He has nothing left to fight with.
Here in the US, Lance is seen as cancer fighter first, and cyclist second. He's built up enough goodwill to survive this, if, and only if, he comes clean. The money is at stake, but the other way. If he continues to deny it in face of overwhelming evidence, he'll start becoming an embarrassment. If he comes out and admits what he's done, what he's built with Livestrong will see him through it. Most notably, Trek (who have been disgraced as part of this with the Lemond debacle) and Nike will stand by him. That's the money.
The smart move, in every way, reputation-wise, money-wise, etc., is for him to come clean. Only the fact that he is one stubborn son of a bitch could prevent it (I'd say only MJ is more of a dick in the sports world), but his team is too good and he trusts them too much. It'll happen.
I'm definitely not a PR expert, but I can hardly see him confessing.
He's made friend (although the meaning of friendship for this guy is probably non-existent) with doping doctor and UCI officials, he's threatened witness, bullied or hectored dozens of people, all that because he's a liar and a cheater ?
I can't see how he can make it look like he's a nice guy who didn't know what he was doing, or that he had no other choice, etc.
Main question regarding Lance Armstrong is will he have to pay any money back ?
Haven't seen it here, but when reading an article about the role of Johan Bruyneel, it crossed my mind that the Schleck-bros must be clean. Despite having Bruyneel as their team manager, their results have been worse than ever!
Or Andy must have faked his fracture?
Edit: The Norwegian media has been all over Steffen Kjærgaard lately due to his involvment in US Postal. He has admitted in an interview that he was given injections by the team staff, but has said he didn't know what was in them.
This has only fuled the idiocy that is Esten O. Sæther, a sport commentator. When it comes to cycling he usually draws the conclusion that "If rider A took dope and rider B beat him once, ergo rider B was also doped."
If it turns out that Kjærgaard did use performance drugs then all hell is gonna break lose Edited by cactus-jack on 12-10-2012 11:24
There's a fine line between "psychotherapist" and "psycho the rapist"
cactus-jack wrote:
Andy is so bad he can't even dope!
(Yes, it's a joke )
Edit: The Norwegian media has been all over Steffen Kjærgaard lately due to his involvment in US Postal. He has admitted in an interview that he was given injections by the team staff, but has said he didn't know what was in them.
This has only fuled the idiocy that is Esten O. Sæther, a sport commentator. When it comes to cycling he usually draws the conclusion that "If rider A took dope and rider B beat him once, ergo rider B was also doped."
If it turns out that Kjærgaard did use performance drugs then all hell is gonna break lose
You would have thought he would have asked what was in the injections...
cactus-jack wrote:
Andy is so bad he can't even dope!
(Yes, it's a joke )
Edit: The Norwegian media has been all over Steffen Kjærgaard lately due to his involvment in US Postal. He has admitted in an interview that he was given injections by the team staff, but has said he didn't know what was in them.
This has only fuled the idiocy that is Esten O. Sæther, a sport commentator. When it comes to cycling he usually draws the conclusion that "If rider A took dope and rider B beat him once, ergo rider B was also doped."
If it turns out that Kjærgaard did use performance drugs then all hell is gonna break lose
You would have thought he would have asked what was in the injections...
cactus-jack wrote:
Andy is so bad he can't even dope!
(Yes, it's a joke )
Edit: The Norwegian media has been all over Steffen Kjærgaard lately due to his involvment in US Postal. He has admitted in an interview that he was given injections by the team staff, but has said he didn't know what was in them.
This has only fuled the idiocy that is Esten O. Sæther, a sport commentator. When it comes to cycling he usually draws the conclusion that "If rider A took dope and rider B beat him once, ergo rider B was also doped."
If it turns out that Kjærgaard did use performance drugs then all hell is gonna break lose
You would have thought he would have asked what was in the injections...
Shut up and dope.....
Keep in mind that alot of riders have similar stories. When you're on a team and the doctors prescribe something to you, you tend to believe him. If you're feeling tired nd the physician gives you some pills you usually asume it's magnesium, or something.
I don't know wether or not Kjærgaard did dope, but he will be hounded by the media because of his comments about Armstrong. When the whole story first apeared in the media (the beginning of the Armstrong-saga, that it) he said that the accusations made by Landis were idiotic and that he didn't know anything about the alleged "doping-plan" in the team.
Then he says he was given injections and that he didn't know wat was in them.
There's a fine line between "psychotherapist" and "psycho the rapist"
Deadpool wrote:
He doesn't have a reputation left after this. He has no argument to this. All of his tried and tested excuses, which we all knew were ridiculous, only worked because the general public didn't know the details. Now they do. He has nothing left to fight with.
Here in the US, Lance is seen as cancer fighter first, and cyclist second. He's built up enough goodwill to survive this, if, and only if, he comes clean. The money is at stake, but the other way. If he continues to deny it in face of overwhelming evidence, he'll start becoming an embarrassment. If he comes out and admits what he's done, what he's built with Livestrong will see him through it. Most notably, Trek (who have been disgraced as part of this with the Lemond debacle) and Nike will stand by him. That's the money.
The smart move, in every way, reputation-wise, money-wise, etc., is for him to come clean. Only the fact that he is one stubborn son of a bitch could prevent it (I'd say only MJ is more of a dick in the sports world), but his team is too good and he trusts them too much. It'll happen.
I'm definitely not a PR expert, but I can hardly see him confessing.
He's made friend (although the meaning of friendship for this guy is probably non-existent) with doping doctor and UCI officials, he's threatened witness, bullied or hectored dozens of people, all that because he's a liar and a cheater ?
I can't see how he can make it look like he's a nice guy who didn't know what he was doing, or that he had no other choice, etc.
Main question regarding Lance Armstrong is will he have to pay any money back ?
I really don't think you understand the weight of his reputation as a cancer fighter in the US. When I say his reputation is gone, I mean his reputation as an athlete is gone. You know what? Only diehard cycling fans give a damn about Lance the athlete. Fuck, most Americans think Lance is the greatest cyclist ever. They have no concept or understand of cycling beyond 'you ride bikes and there is a race called the Tour de France.'
The only thing that can damage his reputation as a cancer fighter is by being stubborn, spiteful, and resentful in the face of this evidence. It will really, really, turn people off. If he comes out and admits it, people in the US will forgive him because of Livestrong.
Don't believe me? Look at what has been on the front page of CNN the last few days:
EDIT: And no, Lance isn't a PR guy...he also hired the man widely regarded as the best personal PR man in the world. He'll be stubborn, they'll convince him.
Edited by Deadpool on 12-10-2012 13:17
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