If it's natural bear with it.
Only natural way to lose muscles is to stop using them, until they thin.
If it's not your fat mass but your muscles that are the cause, I'd say it's not really a big problem for 5 miles cross-country events.
Unrelated, but... as the track season has ended here, I checked the results of 3 guys fro my club who ran at least two different events, comprised between 1500 and 5000m. Thus I calculated their critical speed and their reserve, and compared their critical speed to their 10 k PB of the season.
Reserves are very variable, but mostly comprised between 250-300 m (another guy must have messed his 3000, only 69m reserve, I didn't get access to his 2013 1500m, but he was fast enough to suggest a decent reserve).
Also, critical speeds matched 10 k speeds with a 99% accuracy. In my case my 10 k speed seems to be ~101 %, but it's probably my numbers that must be outdated.
It's quite reassuring to see the formulas make sense when compared to reality when you assess them.
So, I'm almost finishing my 1st "season" as I just started running in the beggining of last year, and I also joined a local tournament that has a few races from September to June.
Here are my best records from my GPS watch:
Sadly, I haven't done any 5km races yet, and I'm also a bit sad with the two 10km races I did, as they weren't exacly flat.
Only 1 race left to end the season, it's 3km on the track, but I'm feeling quite tired lately. Maybe because I don't follow any specific training plan, or don't stretch much at the end of training sessions, or maybe both
Time trialed a 1600m at 5:09 on my local track tonight. I was pleasantly surprised, as I have done no speed work at all (my PR is 5:01). According to strava and my watch, the track appears to be a bit long? I will have to take a wheel and measure it out to see if that is accurate or not.
Anyways I am happy with the results! I am thinking about running a 5K road race on Saturday. That time will hopefully give Aquarius some numbers to crunch There are some significant hills, so it will likely run a bit slow.
b3n3v3nt3 wrote:
So, I'm almost finishing my 1st "season" as I just started running in the beggining of last year, and I also joined a local tournament that has a few races from September to June.
Here are my best records from my GPS watch:
Sadly, I haven't done any 5km races yet, and I'm also a bit sad with the two 10km races I did, as they weren't exacly flat.
Only 1 race left to end the season, it's 3km on the track, but I'm feeling quite tired lately. Maybe because I don't follow any specific training plan, or don't stretch much at the end of training sessions, or maybe both
Based on your best mile and best 5k efforts :
Critical speed : 3.94 m/s
Reserve : 363 m (!) (this indeed suggests you've not done any 5k race, you'd lower your time and get a better critical speed and a worst reserve)
10k speed : 4.20 m/s (I'd say your critical speed is rather that)
Recalculating reserve based on best mile effort and that critical speed :
1609.344 = 4.20 x 316 + reserve
reserve = 283 m (much more probable )
Potential for best 5k effort :
5000 = 4.20 x t + 283
t = 1144s (18:34)
Assessing endurance :
Max distance during 7 minutes : 2046 m
7min speed : 4.87 m/s
Semi marathon speed : 3.97 m/s (81.4 % of 7min speed)
Endurance Index = (100-81.4)/(ln(7)-ln(88.7))
EI = -7.3 (rather common)
Reassessing endurance with 10k speed :
10k speed : 4.20 m/s (86.2 %)
EI (100-86.2)/(ln(7)-ln(39.7))
EI = -7.9 (still common, but worst, the closest to zero the better)
That tends to suggest your 10 k speed is probably weaker than it should, and your reserve overrated (EI is a constant over a few months period, although both numbers are not that distant).
Feel free to do the maths backwards and use -7.3 as endurance index to calculate your 10k time, then your critical speed and reserve.
Hm, thanks that's some interesting stuff, and proves indeed that I could do much better times in a 5km race, and also 10km.
Btw, since I have no races after this weekend, and only start them again in early September (and also feeling a bit fatigued), it's alright to stop running completely for like 3 or 4 weeks right?
And do some easy cycling and swimming just to avoid the extra weight.
I wouldn't advise you to stop running for that long, but I'm not in your shoes.
Physically it might save you an injury if you're fatigued, but a long break also means time lost to re-adapt afterwards.
Now on the psychological aspect, if you feel you need a break take it, if you've reached that point it's probably that should have already taken it a while ago.
I set a new PB of 18:04 on 5 km tonight (GPS measurement), with a time of 18:31 on a 5 km race that actually was 5.11 km long.
Ranked 11th out of 119, which makes it a very weak field compared to where I originate from, for example.
The route wasn't too favourable to a good time though, with more than half of it run on rocky paths, and a bit of D+ (GPS says 24 m, but I believe there was rather something close to twice that).
I wish I had set a time below 18:00, as I'm not going to run another 5 km any time soon.
Next race : 10 km next Saturday, but I heard it's not a measured race, and that it's actually 9.95 km long, which means no chance of setting a new 10 km PB (unless I'd start a bit far off the back of the field ?).
Aquarius wrote:
I set a new PB of 18:04 on 5 km tonight (GPS measurement), with a time of 18:31 on a 5 km race that actually was 5.11 km long.
Ranked 11th out of 119, which makes it a very weak field compared to where I originate from, for example.
The route wasn't too favourable to a good time though, with more than half of it run on rocky paths, and a bit of D+ (GPS says 24 m, but I believe there was rather something close to twice that).
I wish I had set a time below 18:00, as I'm not going to run another 5 km any time soon.
Next race : 10 km next Saturday, but I heard it's not a measured race, and that it's actually 9.95 km long, which means no chance of setting a new 10 km PB (unless I'd start a bit far off the back of the field ?).
Congrats on the PB, Aquarius! I ran 18:48 in my 5K race today. Not bad for sore legs from training and nowhere near top form I'd say. I simply do not have the speed training under my belt to run a fast 5K right now. I was still satisfied with my performance considering I have done nothing but slow, easy miles. @Aquarius, I'm not sure what calculations you can do with my mile from the other day and today's 5K time?
Thanks (again) !
The calculation I do is pretty simple, I do the difference between both of them, time and distance, and divide the results by each other, which gives a critical speed. Critical speed matches 10k speed (+/- 1 %), btw, and is more or less 90 % of your VO2max speed.
Then I pick one of the distances (which one doesn't matter) and subtract the product of critical speed by time for that distance from that distance. The rest is your reserve (aerobic work capacity in more 'serious' terms).
For example, in your case, using respectively 5:09 and 18:48, the difference is 13:39 (819 seconds), and the distance difference is 3 391 m. Critical speed : 4.14 m/s. Reserve : 331 m. VO2max speed around 4.60 m/s.
That's a(n artificially) huge reserve, which leads me to think your 5k course wasn't that fast indeed. If I re-do the math with your formerly known PB, when your reserve was 301 m, your critical speed would be 4.23 m/s (based on your mile TT), and VO2max speed around 4.70 m/s.
Aquarius wrote:
Thanks (again) !
The calculation I do is pretty simple, I do the difference between both of them, time and distance, and divide the results by each other, which gives a critical speed. Critical speed matches 10k speed (+/- 1 %), btw, and is more or less 90 % of your VO2max speed.
Then I pick one of the distances (which one doesn't matter) and subtract the product of critical speed by time for that distance from that distance. The rest is your reserve (aerobic work capacity in more 'serious' terms).
For example, in your case, using respectively 5:09 and 18:48, the difference is 13:39 (819 seconds), and the distance difference is 3 391 m. Critical speed : 4.14 m/s. Reserve : 331 m. VO2max speed around 4.60 m/s.
That's a(n artificially) huge reserve, which leads me to think your 5k course wasn't that fast indeed. If I re-do the math with your formerly known PB, when your reserve was 301 m, your critical speed would be 4.23 m/s (based on your mile TT), and VO2max speed around 4.70 m/s.
Based off this week's times, is it possible to estimate my current VO2 max?
Yes, but it remains an estimate, as your energetic cost and its evolution remain unknown.
VO2max = VO2maxspeed x energetic cost
If you use VO2maxspeed in km/h, generally energetic cost is around 3.5 (+/- 10-20 % depending on people).
In your case it'd be VO2max = 4.6x3.6x3.5 = 58.0
But if we assume that a mile speed is around 100 % of VO2max speed, then : 5.2x3.6x3.5 = 65.5
Or if 5000m speed = 94% of VO2max speed : 59.4
There's another formula, more accurate, but giving mostly similar results :
VO2max = 1.353 + 3.163x(3.6xVO2maxspeed) + 0.0122586x(3.6*VO2maxspeed^2)
Depending on whether you use 5.2, 4.7 or 4.6 m/s in your case, it gives very variable results (and it's the same thing in my case).
I must figure that out.
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I did one more race today before going on vacation, 1500m and new PB, 4:51.
A bit of a surprise, as I haven't trained much lately, and I felt I could have pushed hard at the end much, much earlier. I'll do even better next season
Set a new PR of 37:38 on 10k today, on a course that wasn't that fast at all (rather flat but lots of paths, grass, mud, gravel, etc.).
Bloody Strava changed the Garmin-measured distance from 10.02 km to 9.97 and deprived me from a GPS-measured-PR on the distance (should have been 37:33 or something).
Though I'm quite happy with the time, I'm less happy with how it happened as I got a stomach bug mid-race during almost two km, and and I could never reach the pace I had in the first half of the race again.
Form is good but I'm tired now (training, work, heatwave, etc.).
I'm not sure I'll race again before early September. Two, maybe three races are possible, but far from certain.
So I'm back in running, sorta. I hope, slowly. I got a bit of a knee injury at football a couple of months ago and that pretty much ruined every run for me. Last week, due to little spare time for the bike, I picked up the shoes again and it's good to be back on the nearby trails.
I have to admit I run without a phone though and thus without strava. So I just remember roughly the time and mostly take the kilometers from experience. That aside, I mostly guessed the run distance pretty well usually in the past.
And actually, the running without phone... it's so much more relaxing. Nothing dragging down my pants like a little obnoxious child, and of course, it gives back the initial freedom-ish aspect of running. You know, that Nike advertisemt feeling of Just do it. I enjoy running more without a clock on my back, thus I probably wouldn't even pick up on a Garmin or a similiar tool. Maybe it's because I just run for relaxation and enjoyment. Oddly enough, strava works quite good for motivation when it comes to cycling, hmm.
Edited by Shonak on 02-07-2014 10:12
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
Shonak wrote:
And actually, the running without phone... it's so much more relaxing. Nothing dragging down my pants like a little obnoxious child, and of course, it gives back the initial freedom-ish aspect of running. You know, that Nike advertisemt feeling of Just do it. I enjoy running more without a clock on my back, thus I probably wouldn't even pick up on a Garmin or a similiar tool. Maybe it's because I just run for relaxation and enjoyment. Oddly enough, strava works quite good for motivation when it comes to cycling, hmm.
Couldn't agree more.
"It's very hard to work with other guys because nobody wants to work with me so it's better to drop everybody." - Peter Sagan
Trained 41 miles last week. This Saturday I will be racing a 5K followed by a 15K Sunday... Should be a tough weekend! How's everyone else's training going?
golance123 wrote:
Trained 41 miles last week. This Saturday I will be racing a 5K followed by a 15K Sunday... Should be a tough weekend! How's everyone else's training going?
I've done a half marathon a week for the last 4 weeks, and the times seem to all be almost where I want to be. I need to push out my other runs a bit over the next week, but I always feel like I'm stiff and I really don't want to injure myself now. I probably just need to do more streatching
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182]Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Going Lovely... After my Hamstring injury, my Hammie seized up completely, forcing me out of U23 Nationals (and watching the race, I would definitely have medaled, maybe even won it) and the Senior Nationals... But luckily, I am allowed to run again. Did my first session since Hamstring injury (~3-4 weeks ago) on tuesday with running drills (10m accelerating, 10m decelerating etc at different percentages... Makes me miss winter training on the track (500's and so on). The worst thing was that it was really my kind of session (Speed, aka flying 60's) and I had to watch from the infield and do my stupid cone runs... But Im making small steps in the right direction for a big comeback in the Irish National League Final in the 4x4 relay... Hopefully stacked with a former Olympian and Bronze Medallist in the 400m indoor world championships (David McCarthy) and current Irish number one over 1500, Paul Robinson!
Also, I dont know if you guys would be interested in this, but I am thinking of writing a training journal on this site for next year about a personal goal I have set myself competition-wise for next year... Its more or less about my quest of breaking 50 seconds for the 400 since it is a magical number for many athletes I think. At least thats what I have observed. Would any of you guys be interested in reading something like this in this section?
Cause if so, I will make it happen!
miggi133 wrote:
Going Lovely... After my Hamstring injury, my Hammie seized up completely, forcing me out of U23 Nationals (and watching the race, I would definitely have medaled, maybe even won it) and the Senior Nationals... But luckily, I am allowed to run again. Did my first session since Hamstring injury (~3-4 weeks ago) on tuesday with running drills (10m accelerating, 10m decelerating etc at different percentages... Makes me miss winter training on the track (500's and so on). The worst thing was that it was really my kind of session (Speed, aka flying 60's) and I had to watch from the infield and do my stupid cone runs... But Im making small steps in the right direction for a big comeback in the Irish National League Final in the 4x4 relay... Hopefully stacked with a former Olympian and Bronze Medallist in the 400m indoor world championships (David McCarthy) and current Irish number one over 1500, Paul Robinson!
Also, I dont know if you guys would be interested in this, but I am thinking of writing a training journal on this site for next year about a personal goal I have set myself competition-wise for next year... Its more or less about my quest of breaking 50 seconds for the 400 since it is a magical number for many athletes I think. At least thats what I have observed. Would any of you guys be interested in reading something like this in this section?
Cause if so, I will make it happen!
I would enjoy reading that!
I just finished a brutal race weekend. I ran my hometown 5K Saturday morning in hot and humid conditions. My legs felt fatigued from training. The course was just short of 5K by GPS, but the 600 meter climb more than made up for it. I finished in 18:49.
I traveled 3.5 hours by car following that race to take part in one of the world's largest 15K races. My legs felt dead from the 5K effort yesterday, and the course was surprisingly difficult. I managed a 1:01:42, which I was pleased with given I did not have fresh legs by any means. All in all a fun weekend, and I look forward to chopping those times down as my final cross country season nears!
EDIT: I forgot to mention the wind was brutal the first 3-4 miles of the 15K!
Edited by golance123 on 14-07-2014 00:51
There are some significant hills, so it will likely run a bit slow.
)
that's some interesting stuff, and proves indeed that I could do much better times in a 5km race, and also 10km.
