PCM.Daily NFL Fantasy Football Champion: 2012 PCM.Daily NHL Prediction Game Champion: 2013 PCM.Daily NFL Prediction Game Champion: 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2021
Small sample size I know, but Cutler hasn't had that good of a few game stretch in his entire career. Also the fact that McCown also comes with an ~12M discount really makes him more valuable to the team. Cutler is better than McCown tho, if we only take into consideration their performance on the field and age but this is not what I'm arguing about.
Another problem is that the Bears have so many holes on defense that aren't going to be solved by overpaying for the QB. (they also need to pay Jeffery and Marshall...hahaha, good luck with that now )
Look at the recent SB winners:
2012 Ravens: very good defense for last few regular season games and playoffs. Also Flacco ran hotter than sun.(Cutler can do that too, but the defense isn't anywhere close)
2011 Giants: same as 2012 Ravens.
2010 Packers: Godgers.
2009 Saints: Brees + bounty gate.
2008 Steelers: Stellar defense.
2007 Giants: Stellar defense.
This was also the perfect time to move on from Cutler. Trestman is also a very good QB coach so they could've very well draft Mettenberger or Murray or someone else next year and develop him into into a very good QB.
Cutler is good. But I don't know how good a team is if he's its best player.
EDIT: Also McCown/Cutler/Trestman trio seems to be exactly like Foles/Vick/Kelly one, with McCown and Foles being the ones that play better in their respective coaches system. I mean, Flynn also put up 500 yards in the right system.
Edited by sosososik on 03-01-2014 01:35
sosososik wrote:
Small sample size I know, but Cutler hasn't had that good of a few game stretch in his entire career. Also the fact that McCown also comes with an ~12M discount really makes him more valuable to the team. Cutler is better than McCown tho, if we only take into consideration their performance on the field and age but this is not what I'm arguing about.
McCown made about a million this year, but no doubt he will look for a big increase anyways. Reason being, look at the QBs on the market. Schaub, Cassel, etc. He knows he will get a decent contract by testing free agency, so the Bears wouldn't get him for cheap.
sosososik wrote:
Another problem is that the Bears have so many holes on defense that aren't going to be solved by overpaying for the QB.
You have to remember that it was quite an injury-plagued year for them, you can't judge their defense of the future by their performance this season. I hate to use fantasy football as an example, but you could get an idea of how they were supposed to be one of the premier defenses in the league at the beginning of the season. Looking at cap space they won't be able to resign all their guys, but they're not losing out on any studs.
sosososik wrote:
(they also need to pay Jeffery and Marshall...hahaha, good luck with that now )
Marshall's contract comes up next year and Jeffrey the year after that. It's really not a big concern because contracts can be restructured easily, and most teams do this with their top guys.
sosososik wrote:
Look at the recent SB winners:
2012 Ravens: very good defense for last few regular season games and playoffs. Also Flacco ran hotter than sun.(Cutler can do that too, but the defense isn't anywhere close)
2011 Giants: same as 2012 Ravens.
2010 Packers: Godgers.
2009 Saints: Brees.
2008 Steelers: Stellar defense.
2007 Giants: Stellar defense.
The point you are trying to make is 100% correct, however it is more about getting hot at the right time. You cannot say that next year's Bears defense will be crap. Like I said earlier, without the amount of key injuries their defense is actually pretty solid. Also, besides Brees, all of the aforementioned QBs weren't exactly "elite" the year before the super bowl, and I don't even consider Eli close to elite.
And funnily enough, look at the year before the Super Bowl for those teams. Mediocre at best:
06 Giants, 8-8
07 Steelers, 8-8
08 Saints, 8-8
09 Packers, 11-5 (I'll give you this)
10 Giants, 10-6 but missed playoffs
11 Ravens, 12-4 (I'll give you this)
sosososik wrote:
This was also the perfect time to move from Cutler. Trestman is also a very good QB coach so they could've very well draft Mettenberger or Murray or someone else next year and develop him into into a very good QB.
As said above, they are close enough to a playoff berth that it's not necessary to rebuild(f.e. the 8-8 records shown above). They are good enough to contend for the playoffs and once you're in, anything can happen (the SB winners you listed). And going into a rebuild would waste valuable time, right now you have guys like Marshall, Forte, Peppers, etc. in their prime.
Plus, going past the first 10 picks of a draft and looking for a good QB doesn't work. It doesn't mattter how good your coach is, the fact is, you can only get franchise players like Andrew Luck with top picks. Sure there are exceptions like Brady and Wilson, but as a GM you cannot bank on that. And even if you make some sort of move to get a top pick it's no guarantee you'll have long-term success, see Gabbert, RGIII, etc.
sosososik wrote:
Cutler is good. But I don't know how good a team is if he's its best player.
He's not close to being the best player. Marshall, Forte, Tillman, Jennings, Peppers, the list goes on.
Tell me, what are the chances of a one-season turnaround? I'm referring to the Colts and Andrew Luck after Manning left. Not likely. So you are always better off vying for a playoff spot than tanking, because Cutler is not good but you know what you can get from him, however you can't be sure about the draft. You win Super Bowls by making the playoffs first and getting a little bit of luck. Edited by 547984 on 03-01-2014 02:07
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
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It's 4:30am here. Alabama - OU and Miami - GS are on.
I ain't answering to that now lol.
What can I say really quick is that McCown is 34 so he would not have been paid big bucks. I've somehow forgotten that this D faced so many injuries, but still the whole point was that Cutler << McCown + $$ in Trestman system.
I've said this before...but it seems that Europeans never sleep.
Anyways I think they won't lose anyone major except for perhaps Hester. That's about it.
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
547984 wrote:
McCown made about a million this year, but no doubt he will look for a big increase anyways. Reason being, look at the QBs on the market. Schaub, Cassel, etc. He knows he will get a decent contract by testing free agency, so the Bears wouldn't get him for cheap.
Cutler's cap hit next season is 18M. I think 6-8M is what McCown would have gotten considering the fact that he's 34 and that he wanted a long-term-ish contract.
547984 wrote:
You have to remember that it was quite an injury-plagued year for them, you can't judge their defense of the future by their performance this season. I hate to use fantasy football as an example, but you could get an idea of how they were supposed to be one of the premier defenses in the league at the beginning of the season. Looking at cap space they won't be able to resign all their guys, but they're not losing out on any studs.
It's true that I did forget how many injuries they had on defense. Problem is that once the first guys came down they started giving up 400 yards to Big Ben or 100 yards to freaking Brandon Jacobs. They need depth and also guys like Peppers, Briggs, Tillman are pretty old.
547984 wrote:
Marshall's contract comes up next year and Jeffrey the year after that. It's really not a big concern because contracts can be restructured easily, and most teams do this with their top guys.
Define easy. Both will demand top receiver money. Restructuring will mean that any of them will have 20+ cap hit at some point. Though I can't see them paying that much money to Marshall.
547984 wrote:
The point you are trying to make is 100% correct, however it is more about getting hot at the right time. You cannot say that next year's Bears defense will be crap. Like I said earlier, without the amount of key injuries their defense is actually pretty solid. Also, besides Brees, all of the aforementioned QBs weren't exactly "elite" the year before the super bowl, and I don't even consider Eli close to elite.
And funnily enough, look at the year before the Super Bowl for those teams. Mediocre at best:
06 Giants, 8-8
07 Steelers, 8-8
08 Saints, 8-8
09 Packers, 11-5 (I'll give you this)
10 Giants, 10-6 but missed playoffs
11 Ravens, 12-4 (I'll give you this) Pfft
Cutler can get hot, but so does McCown.
Ravens also played without their number one corner after the Cowboys game (week 8 or something) and also without Ngata for most part of their season and even when he came back he wasn't that effective. As I said earlier Bears couldn't overcome any injuries.
547984 wrote:
As said above, they are close enough to a playoff berth that it's not necessary to rebuild(f.e. the 8-8 records shown above). They are good enough to contend for the playoffs and once you're in, anything can happen (the SB winners you listed). And going into a rebuild would waste valuable time, right now you have guys like Marshall, Forte, Peppers, etc. in their prime.
Plus, going past the first 10 picks of a draft and looking for a good QB doesn't work. It doesn't mattter how good your coach is, the fact is, you can only get franchise players like Andrew Luck with top picks. Sure there are exceptions like Brady and Wilson, but as a GM you cannot bank on that. And even if you make some sort of move to get a top pick it's no guarantee you'll have long-term success, see Gabbert, RGIII, etc.
You didn't understand my point. With McCown they weren't tanking, they would've actually get better as a team. He OUTPLAYED Cutler with exactly the same weapons and looked better as he seemed to fit better in Trestman system. Draft a QB, play McCown for 3 years and then move on.
Wilson, Kaep, Foles, Glennon, Keenum were drafted mid-late rounds. With very good head coaches the first 3 look extremely good while Glennon and Keenum showed flashes(they had Schiano and Kubiak as HC lol)
Gabbert was just a fail(you probably loved this picked as the Texans were able to draft Watt one spot lower). RG3 was just unlucky that he was let to play on a shitty field in one leg against.
Bottom line is that they signed a 7 year deal to a QB that has just one playoff win and hasn't played a full season since 09. Even this year which was his best statistic season he was still outplayed by a QB from the same roster. I don't know how much improvement does he brings and also don't think it's worth the money.
547984 wrote:
I've said this before...but it seems that Europeans never sleep.
Some of us prefer to stay late and watch the games live and some to go to sleep and download it the next day. There are always europeans online.
Ahahahaha!
If Houston actually goes through with trading the No.1 pick of the upcoming draft, its gonna be another LOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGG Season for Texans Fans... If there will be any left! Not even Cleveland would be that stupid! Especially since Bridgewater decided to enter the draft. Unless they want to go for Manziel, which would be the stupidest decision in the World with Bridgewater on the Board...
Cause I realistically cant see them moving forward with Keenum, Schaub and Yates...
I'm actually not that surprised...this year's QB class is quite weak, and Bridgewater is overrated imo. It's nowhere near the class of Luck and RGIII. It's similar to the Mario Williams draft, when Houston inquired other managers about trading up but they all declined since the 1-3 picks were pretty even.
It would be funny if they traded down and drafted Derek Carr.
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
It could be a good move if they can keep a pick in the Top 10 plus extra picks later on. The question is whether to get one big pick or an all round selection of decent players.
Edited by jph27 on 03-01-2014 21:31
PCM.Daily NFL Fantasy Football Champion: 2012 PCM.Daily NHL Prediction Game Champion: 2013 PCM.Daily NFL Prediction Game Champion: 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2021
547984 wrote:
I'm actually not that surprised...this year's QB class is quite weak, and Bridgewater is overrated imo. It's nowhere near the class of Luck and RGIII. It's similar to the Mario Williams draft, when Houston inquired other managers about trading up but they all declined since the 1-3 picks were pretty even.
It would be funny if they traded down and drafted Derek Carr.
Weak QB class? I mean yes, Mariota would have made this years class so much better but Bortles, Manziel, Carr already is pretty decent. And Bridgewater as well. I mean he is the most complete QB in this years draft! Plus there are McCarron, who may be a bit overrated but still can be a more than capable starter, and Mettenberger... And there is always the chance that Miller & Hundley enter the draft as well. But even without them, that class is very good.
The 2012 class was just unreal, with Luck, RG3, Wilson, Tannehill, Foles and COusins... But to be fair, it lived up to the expectations that the 2011 class failed to deliver (The so called year of the QB). I mean there are 3 capable QBs from 2011... Newton, Dalton and Kaepernick (id like to include McElroy, but noone wants to give him a chance). Apart from that the class was totally overhyped as one of the best years for QB's ever, if not the best. Id say, this years class is an awful lot better than the 2011 one. No point in even going back further, with players like Tebow (2010), Mr Buttfumble (2009) etc...
If you look at it, this years class is an awful lot better than most of the recent QB classes (2012 excluded)...
My point is that there is no "stud" QB that everyone is making Bridgewater out to be. The QBs in the draft are more or less about equal imo.
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
547984 wrote:
My point is that there is no "stud" QB that everyone is making Bridgewater out to be. The QBs in the draft are more or less about equal imo.
Yes I said I definitely agree with this.. Manziel will be like Tebow.. Bridgewater like a Matt Leinart..
PCM.Daily NFL Fantasy Football Champion: 2012 PCM.Daily NHL Prediction Game Champion: 2013 PCM.Daily NFL Prediction Game Champion: 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2021
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
PCM.Daily NFL Fantasy Football Champion: 2012 PCM.Daily NHL Prediction Game Champion: 2013 PCM.Daily NFL Prediction Game Champion: 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2021
Lets see if Luck can pull off one of his signature combacks, it is not looking good for Indy right now...not that I would've expected them to do good anyways.
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
PCM.Daily NFL Fantasy Football Champion: 2012 PCM.Daily NHL Prediction Game Champion: 2013 PCM.Daily NFL Prediction Game Champion: 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2021
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