fcancellara wrote:
Slagter's stats do deserve a little upgrade now, don't they?
Read the previous page. Some other Dutchmen wanted that too
but Alak won't correct stats for just one small stage-race...
Edited by Jesleyh on 26-01-2013 18:28
fcancellara wrote:
Slagter's stats do deserve a little upgrade now, don't they?
Read the previous page. Some other Dutchmen wanted that too but Alak won't correct stats for just one small stage-race...
Not even that. I am not going correct stats until further in the season. There are 3 scheduled updates and I will stick to that. And Slagter will definitely be upgraded in the first one, if he continues to ride as here.
fcancellara wrote:
Slagter's stats do deserve a little upgrade now, don't they?
Read the previous page. Some other Dutchmen wanted that too but Alak won't correct stats for just one small stage-race...
Not even that. I am not going correct stats until further in the season. There are 3 scheduled updates and I will stick to that. And Slagter will definitely be upgraded in the first one, if he continues to ride as here.
Yes, I know, I didn't want to re-open the discussion again, I'm fine with that
fcancellara wrote:
Slagter's stats do deserve a little upgrade now, don't they?
Read the previous page. Some other Dutchmen wanted that too but Alak won't correct stats for just one small stage-race...
Not even that. I am not going correct stats until further in the season. There are 3 scheduled updates and I will stick to that. And Slagter will definitely be upgraded in the first one, if he continues to ride as here.
@Jesleyh : Sorry, but I want to make a further comment on Slagter and Kelderman. Well, I will repeat what many said earlier but that's just the first stage race of the season and absolutely anybody (except some Australians riders) were at their best. So, better waiting on their case.
As a Dutchman, you should know the example of Lieuwe Westra, who was really strong at Paris-Nice, but who was no way near the level during the remainder of the season. (as far as hilly races are concerned)
dbreality wrote:
@Jesleyh : Sorry, but I want to make a further comment on Slagter and Kelderman. Well, I will repeat what many said earlier but that's just the first stage race of the season and absolutely anybody (except some Australians riders) were at their best. So, better waiting on their case.
As a Dutchman, you should know the example of Lieuwe Westra, who was really strong at Paris-Nice, but who was no way near the level during the remainder of the season. (as far as hilly races are concerned)
Yeah, but Westra doesn't have a very high hill stat, so I think it's fair. And Westra did okay in some other (smaller) hilly races, like the last stage of Tour of Belgium.
But about Slagter, still, beating Goss & Gilbert in a (almost) pure sprint and keeping up with Gerrans means that TJ at least deserves his 75HI that he has. And then I take into account that some of the guys aren't in top-form, since for example Gilbert got 81HI in the DB, but I don't say that Slagter now deserves 82HI because he beat Gilbert
And I wasn't only talking about TDU, they(especially Slagter) did some nice things last season too, but indeed I thought everyone was surprised by Slagter's performance, so he might deserve a higher hill/sprint.
But never mind, I'm not really willing to open the discussion again Edited by Jesleyh on 31-01-2013 06:14
I look this afternoon, in 10 minutes some stats that I think maybe better for some riders:
- Majka Climb 74/75 I think he show that he´s better climber than 73
- L.L. Sanchez spr 69, He has 70 in the DB, but I think it´s better 69 because the next years he can get 72 or 73
- Simon Clarke, he has in spr 69, I think he is more faster than Luisle for example, I think 70/71 maybe better
- Zirbel cri/prlg 75??? Sorry but I think when he doped... maybe, but Now, It´s not possible
- Ken Hanson spr 69 in the DB, I think this stats for him it´s too poor, he is a good sprinter, the last year did many good results in USA bettet than Fred Rodriguez, Alex Candelario, Richeze brothers,... Ken Hanson maybe 72/73 perfect for him.
- Wiggins I think in Cri maybe better with 82. Tony Martin actually is the King, its absolutely superior than Wiggo.
- Similar in Chrono T.Martin/Wiggins it´s the Sprint Stats Cav/Greip.
I know that Cav has better secundary stats than Greipel, but I think it´s not enought.
I think it´s better Cavendish 83 Greipel 82 OR Cavendish 82 Greipel 81
- And finally, I talk about some free riders a few months ago. I know that its very difficult because there are many many riders, but someones it´s very easy to see
For example: Manuel Vazquez, Loddo, Palumbo, and many more.
If I have time tomorrow I would like to do a list with the most important "fakes" with free riders.
In general there are many good stats, I think this is the best DB in the World for PCM. Congratulations and Thanks for your great work.
- Zirbel cri/prlg 75??? Sorry but I think when he doped... maybe, but Now, It´s not possible
75 is about right imo, 73/74 could be better but he's still not that bad. He's actually had his best season since returning from his suspension, so take that how you like
Last season he won the Elk Grove Prologue against fairly decent competition.
AiZaK wrote:
I look this afternoon, in 10 minutes some stats that I think maybe better for some riders:
- Majka Climb 74/75 I think he show that he´s better climber than 73
- L.L. Sanchez spr 69, He has 70 in the DB, but I think it´s better 69 because the next years he can get 72 or 73
- Simon Clarke, he has in spr 69, I think he is more faster than Luisle for example, I think 70/71 maybe better
- Zirbel cri/prlg 75??? Sorry but I think when he doped... maybe, but Now, It´s not possible
- Ken Hanson spr 69 in the DB, I think this stats for him it´s too poor, he is a good sprinter, the last year did many good results in USA bettet than Fred Rodriguez, Alex Candelario, Richeze brothers,... Ken Hanson maybe 72/73 perfect for him.
- Wiggins I think in Cri maybe better with 82. Tony Martin actually is the King, its absolutely superior than Wiggo.
- Similar in Chrono T.Martin/Wiggins it´s the Sprint Stats Cav/Greip.
I know that Cav has better secundary stats than Greipel, but I think it´s not enought.
I think it´s better Cavendish 83 Greipel 82 OR Cavendish 82 Greipel 81
- And finally, I talk about some free riders a few months ago. I know that its very difficult because there are many many riders, but someones it´s very easy to see
For example: Manuel Vazquez, Loddo, Palumbo, and many more.
If I have time tomorrow I would like to do a list with the most important "fakes" with free riders.
In general there are many good stats, I think this is the best DB in the World for PCM. Congratulations and Thanks for your great work.
About the free agents, they should be done for full version All of them in fact should be reviewed hopefully. Thx for suggestions, will take a look at them. If you have a list of free agents, sent them to my PM. Will be easier for me for later to check personally when doing the, Edited by Alakagom on 04-02-2013 20:10
Perichon won last year's Paris-Camembert, beating Cyril Bessy and Jean-Marc Bideau from an escape trio. He also finished 12th overall in a very hard Tour de l'Ain, ahead of riders like Cataldo, Majka and Bardet. That calls for a bit higher than 61 MO/HI if you ask me.
Koretzky is probably even better, and a bright talent for the future. Here are his most notable result from 2012:
2nd behind Romain Hardy in an uphill finish in Haut Var
3rd on the first stage of Criterium International
15th overall in the Tour of Norway
7th in GP Plumelec, which finishes atop Cote de Cadoudal
2nd in GP de la Somme, winning the sprint in a group that included riders like Delage, Serry, Petit and Casper
A handy puncheur with a good kick, similar to Purito. 61 HI / 55 SP is far too low. I'd say somewhere around or just below 70 HI and 65-68 SP.
I can PM you some more riders from the smaller French teams if you'd like. I know most of them pretty well, as I've been following several teams quite closely.
Jesleyh wrote:
@Alak Would be great if you could find some time for some CT teams
I can try to find some time to take a look on the Dutch CT teams/riders if you want
Yep, Free Agents will be priority for V1 hopefully. Pro Conti is more or less okay, although revision will come in the summer. For Continental teams I hope to do all the teams over a month or two and release the new updated stats here as .cdb file. We'll see how that goes.
I forgot, Aramendia showed the last year in Vuelta a España that he is very fighter.
Currently in the game, I remember he is 61, maybe better 74/75 for example?
I've checked a few Dutch CT stat, and I came to the following conclusions.
Dylan Van Baarle(RB3) should get a boost in his stats.
TT: 67-> 69 PRL 67-> 70. SP 66-> 70 FL 65-> 68 COB 64 -> 67. HI 61 -> 66. + better backup stats (Just proposal, can be changed as much as you like )
He managed to beat better TTists than him multiple times last season.
He for example won the Olympia Tour GC, in front of guys like Kusnetzsov and Dennis. (Dennis got 72HI, 71TT in the DB)
In the same Olympia Tour, he won the prologue, and got 2nd in a (little bit) longer TT, just behind Dennis.
Van Baarle also impressed in the 'Mont et Chateux' TT, where he won, ahead of Wellens(70TT), and left guys like Jungels(73TT) and Brown(71TT) about half a minute(Van Baarle used 12 minutes) behind.
In the Normandië prologue, he got 6th, but leaving guys like Craddock and Le Bon behind.
He did also impress in the Poitou TT. He finished 13th, but that's in front of Zubeldia, Roux, Lemoine.
He did even better in the last stage of Poitou. It's an (uphill I think if I look at the results) sprint, Ventoso won, and he got 9th. It's says enough if I tell you who was 10th, it was Seb. Chavanel. Of course he let guys like Roy, Taaramaë behind him, since they're not sprinters(Although Roy got an higher SP. value than Van Baarle)
That his sprint value should be higher is also proven by his win at Arno Wallaard, finishing with a big gap on guys like Schets and Kreder.
Another point is his COB value. It shouldn't get too high, but maybe he deserves 67 like... He got 4th at Zelik - Galmaarden, finishing in the front group, with behind him Bagdonas. Not sure how the race went though
Another rider, where there was a discussion about earlier, but not yet fixed(I think) is Yoeri Havik.
Problem is though that you forgot to add him to the DB(already mentioned, and you guys know that I guess), so I don't know if you have changed his stats.
But right, about his stats. His flat stat was 59. That is way too low for him, he deserves about 68 I think(although it's hard to give someone a correct flat stat). His sprinting stat(used to be 70) should maybe get a bit up too. 2 days ago, he got 9th at Trofeo de Mallorca, that is in front of a lot of good sprinters(Matthews, Bos, Radochla, Gène). He did the same yesterday in Migjorn, getting 9th, with Swift in 10th(Where Swift got third in Palma, so nothing wrong with Swift's form).
Last year, Havik did some other good things on the road, like winning a Normandië stage(Leaving guys like McEvoy and Kreder behind), 13th at Handzame(outsprinting Schets, Keough). He also got 6th in Trofeo Migjorn in 2012. The startlist was a bit weaker than this year, but still, outsprinted Rojas, Benatti.
So summary: Flat should go up drastically, and sprint should go up a few points(72 seems fair to me)
Next one: Ivar Slik
He can both TT and sprint, and his stats say so, but the stats say that he isn't impressive in both of them.
Slik won the Istrian Spring thropy prologue(for example in front of Arndt), and for example lead(I think he did, since he was the best TT from the team) Rabo Conti Team to a second place at the TTT in Tour of China.
But the main point is sprinting.
He outsprinted the peloton for the win in 'Ronde van Midden Nederland'(guys like Radochla participated), got second in 'Monts et Chateux' GC, behind Jungels, which isn't a shame since he's a big talent.
Slik also podiumed at an other Tour de China stage. In the end, he got 5th in the GC of 'Tour de China'.
So Ivar's TT stat should be increased, especially prologue one(for example prologue +2/3, TT +1. His sprint stat should be increased to 70(it's now 67). That doesn't make him a great sprinter, but I think he's worth it.
Last guy: Van der Lijke
His flat stat should be higher. He hasn't got any problems with keeping up on flat (one-day) races. He's even a good leadout/last men before leadout. He finished 19th at Rupchen and 20th at Beverbeek, which means that he has got a decent sprint(used for leading out) and doesn't have any problems on the flat. His achievements in Tour of China I and II confirm that: He finished in the Top 20 in almost every stage, while most of the stages are flat
Last thing is his hill ability. It's currently 68, which seems about fair, but he proved in Tour de Gironde(GC win ahead of R. Van Rensburg) and Bretagne that he deserve about 69/70. FL: 62 -> about 67/68
SP: 60 -> about 65-67
HI: 68-> 69/70
Edit: Just noticed another thing. Jasper Bovenhuis is way underrated in TT(Especially PRL) and a little bit in MO.
He had a nice PRL in Normandië(Second). In Boucles de La Mayenne, he got 3rd in the prologue(in front of Lemoine and Dumoulin). He also got 3rd in one of the Olympia Tour PRL's. and 10th in Ronde van Overijssel.
I would say: 65TT, 67PRL.
And about MO: He got 17th in Tour de L'ain(Man, Rabobank CT was really succesfull there for a CT team). Cataldo was 18th and Majka 19th.
I think he deserves a 66-> 68 MO
Also noticed that I might have been a bit too generous with Van Baarle, but I'm still fully behind the other stat changes I said about the other riders, and I still think that Van Baarle does need better stats than his current ones
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Hope this all was useful. I'm maybe a little bit biased, but I think I'm not unrealistic. I'm not that much biased though, since I don't know those riders really good, and I don't have a favourite rider among those.
I only used facts for the stats too Edited by Jesleyh on 05-02-2013 16:56
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