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Tour De France 2014 Pre-race thread
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 07:26
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 04-07-2014 00:04
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Jacdk wrote:
What are you on about? i am giving a opinion about the Giro and as a race its officials are absolute terrible, not just this year but pretty much constantly most years.
Compared to Tour De France its like looking at a circus with a sad clown.
The GreenEDGE bus disproves your point 
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| jacobjc88 |
Posted on 04-07-2014 00:06
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SSJ2Luigi wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
What are you on about? i am giving a opinion about the Giro and as a race its officials are absolute terrible, not just this year but pretty much constantly most years.
Compared to Tour De France its like looking at a circus with a sad clown.
The GreenEDGE bus disproves your point
No rule without exceptions.
Discussion won.
Present:
Tinkoff-Saxo - AG2R - Colombian riders
Past:
Francisco Mancebo - Illes balears - Carlos Sastre - Kelme - Robbie McEwen
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 04-07-2014 00:11
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I stell fail to understand people who like the Giro or the Vuelta more than the Tour. I mean, I like those races, but to me, they are absolutely nothing compared to the Tour. Eeverything is just SO much bigger, all the pre-race talk/analysis, all the extra transmissions, the full coverage stages, the doping, the tour magazines, the attention, the spectators, the legendary mountains and the tension.an, I basicaly havent missed a single stage in 5 years or so and I probably wont this year either. Why? Cause i freaking love this race so much more than everything else cycling stands for. |
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| schleckfreak |
Posted on 04-07-2014 00:19
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So you are saying that there aren't any legendary mountains in giro or vuelta? |
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 04-07-2014 00:28
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The actual racing & everything connected to it = Giro, Vuelta > Tour
Everything else (pre-race talks, analysis, spectators, whole event, attention it gets on TV, fans and stuff) = Tour > Giro, Vuelta
I prefer watching some real racing over all of these pre-race and things during the race on Tour, with having only one real mountain where guys can't even lose time properly (this year is exception, with few mountains and only one time-trial). Telling that Tour has more legendary mountains than Giro & Vuelta is absolutelly untrue.
But yeah, let's enjoy some cycling and stop this bullshit! The discussion is pointless, anyways. We'll always have guys who prefer Giro/Vuelta over Tour (me and Guido f.e.) and guys who prefer Tour over Giro (like you, Riis).
Edited by admirschleck on 04-07-2014 00:30
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 04-07-2014 00:45
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So The Tour doesnt have more so called legendary mountains than the Vuelta? Its surely a question of definition, but I can only count 1 in Spain, the Angliru while Tour de France have Tourmalet, Galibier, Izoard, Alpe d' Huez and Mont Ventoux. Whatever, that point was also kinda useless - what I wanted to say was just I love see the peloton in those landscapes.
Also I think its untrue that the Giro/Vuelta's racing undoubtedly is better than the Tour, which many have stated (not in this thread necessarily). If you compare last year mountains stages finishing on a climb, 3/4 of those stages were won by one from the favorite group + every climb had massive time gaps which it what i appreciate when watching cycling. Of course it doesnt really makes sense to discuss this since were of differents opinions and wont change. While I respect your opinion (and others who share it), I simply dont understand it
Edited by Riis123 on 04-07-2014 00:47
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| Shonak |
Posted on 04-07-2014 01:16
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Riis123 wrote:
Its surely a question of definition, but I can only count 1 in Spain, the Angliru
And even the Angliru is only "15 years old" to professional bike racing, he's "younger" than most users here... I think! Angliru is a helluva climb and true beast at that and jeez, that fog last year... but imo it needs way more history and time passed until it reaches the fame of other climbs, at least in my book.
Edited by Shonak on 04-07-2014 01:17
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Jacdk |
Posted on 04-07-2014 01:20
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Riis123 wrote:
So The Tour doesnt have more so called legendary mountains than the Vuelta? Its surely a question of definition, but I can only count 1 in Spain, the Angliru while Tour de France have Tourmalet, Galibier, Izoard, Alpe d' Huez and Mont Ventoux. Whatever, that point was also kinda useless - what I wanted to say was just I love see the peloton in those landscapes.
Also I think its untrue that the Giro/Vuelta's racing undoubtedly is better than the Tour, which many have stated (not in this thread necessarily). If you compare last year mountains stages finishing on a climb, 3/4 of those stages were won by one from the favorite group + every climb had massive time gaps which it what i appreciate when watching cycling. Of course it doesnt really makes sense to discuss this since were of differents opinions and wont change. While I respect your opinion (and others who share it), I simply dont understand it
Dont waste your time Riis, you are dealing with young people who for some weren't even born when Armstrong won his first TdF
Also considering it is subjective, there isn't really a point to argue over this, but with that said ask any expert, any rider, any one who are actually involved in cycling, most will list the GT´s with Tour De France first.
Because there are simply not another race bigger than Tour De France and with how amateurish the giro officials are and how the vuelta officials doesnt seem to care that much about the race,( who don't remember recently when Contador came back from his ban and on the stage where he took the lead, there was no tv pictures because they didn't have a helicopter in the air)
As to the mountains who can forget L'Alpe d'Huez, Ventoux, Tourmalet, Col d'Aubisque, Col du Galibier and thats just the biggest , there are still plenty of mountains left.
Anyways its all subjective and also i get why someone might prefer Giro and Vuelta when the riders they like are there and not the tour.
Edited by Jacdk on 04-07-2014 01:23
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| Iguwell |
Posted on 04-07-2014 02:05
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Riis123 wrote:
I stell fail to understand people who like the Giro or the Vuelta more than the Tour. I mean, I like those races, but to me, they are absolutely nothing compared to the Tour. Eeverything is just SO much bigger, all the pre-race talk/analysis, all the extra transmissions, the full coverage stages, the doping, the tour magazines, the attention, the spectators, the legendary mountains and the tension.an, I basicaly havent missed a single stage in 5 years or so and I probably wont this year either. Why? Cause i freaking love this race so much more than everything else cycling stands for.
I don't really give much for the tour magazines, hype etc. It's actually too much. And they can hardly give you any info you don't have if you are already into cycling. I like watching cycling for the tactical and physical performances in a special environment. The Tour is not always better in this aspect - it's usually worse.
The only thing we got the past 2 years was Chris Froome looking at stems.
Edited by Iguwell on 04-07-2014 02:06
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 04-07-2014 06:19
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ShortsNL wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
Sure sure and 3 other experts and the Czech cycling federation says that its highly likely that these values could be caused by many other things then doping.
So what part of that are you having a hard time understanding?
Uhm... the part where his word suddenly has any factual value when he has provided absolutely no evidence? You or I never heard three of his experts say anything. We only heard Roman claim things. All we have is his side of the story, a very painted one, with no evidence in support.
-if what he says is true about being caught on the bio passport, then it's an absolute fact that three independe Wada/APMU experts concluded that he is doping. No UCI. Only Wada/APMU.
-He also says he hired his own three experts. He claims that these experts are independent and trustworthy. He claims that those experts say his bio passport is normal. He claims that those experts say any fluctuations have other causes that can be proved.
So here we come in a scenario with three options:
A: He is lying about the fact that he got caught doping and everything is just a big hoax.
B: He got caught doping and is now lying about the nature of his hired experts or their conclusions to make it look like he is clean. If this is the case, first his supposed 'expert' proof will be found out to be worthless (note: he says that this has already happened!) and he will be banned because he couldn't prove he wasn't doping.
C: He got caught for supposed doping and now has real evidence to support his innocence. This will mean a lengthy legal battle because it will mean having to prove the flawed nature of the bio passport, a tool that has banned dozens of cyclists for doping already, a tool that relies on years of testing and lots of scientific statistical analysis. This would result in a complete overturn of the sport, anti-doping labs and procedures.
I'm pretty sure which one is the most likely...
Usually team and cycling federation suspends rider immediately, if there is no other explanation then doping. This time, the whole team and federation stands behind Kreuziger ,who has also experts backing whatever his explanation is.
Dont get me wrong, i think there is high possibility that Roman was involved in doping at Astana, but you cant compare it to majority of doping cases. Nothing has beeen decided yet.
Btw fact that Roman said nothing to media about his defence does not mean a shit, he never tells anything to press and keeps everything to himself. Experts he called to the case are also not obliged to inform you or the public at this point. 
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 04-07-2014 06:28
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 04-07-2014 06:27
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Anyway, i really like the Tour every year, especially because of non-stop intensity of racing from all the riders. It seems to me, that at Tour, everyone goes mad and we can see 40 riders attacks or 150kms long echelon stage brutalk rides like cannondale did last year. I love the Tour. 
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| CountArach |
Posted on 04-07-2014 08:14
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I'm putting down some (real money) bets now:
Rafal Majka top 10 - 12:1 odds
Benat Intxausti top 10 - 23:1 odds
Talansky beats Van Garderen - 1.87:1 odds
Pinot beats Andy Schleck - 1.87:1 odds
The first two I feel are incredibly good odds, particularly the Majka bet so I've put a few dollars on each of them. I was on the fence about Talansky beating Van Garderen so I haven't put much on it. Pinot beating Andy is just... astonishingly good money. I have about $20 on that.
EDIT: And I placed some bets for stage 1 too:
Cavendish to win the stge (3.25:1)
Matthews to beat Gerrans (1.50:1)
Danny Van Boppel to beat Goss (2.15:1)
Rojas to beat Haussler (1.87:1)
Edited by CountArach on 04-07-2014 08:23
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 04-07-2014 08:30
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Where are you guys getting this info that the Czech federation believes him? I have found no press release on the CZ federation website, nor a quote from a federation representative on any news outlet.
Or is this another 'Roman says...?'
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 04-07-2014 08:39
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Talking of national jerseys why Nelson Oliveira wasnt in his Portuguese national jersey during presentation? I couldn't really spot it unless it was Nibbles' Astana esque
BTW I remember Grivko's and Bozić's 2012 National jerseys, they were nice why Vino now decided to make them so Kazakh
I mean if Nibbles' jersey wouldve been white instead of turquoise of kazakhstan that wouldve been so much better and vino would still get the Astana visible on the jersey.
Edited by Kirchen_75 on 04-07-2014 08:44
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| wogsrus |
Posted on 04-07-2014 08:58
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CountArach wrote:
I'm putting down some (real money) bets now:
Rafal Majka top 10 - 12:1 odds
Benat Intxausti top 10 - 23:1 odds
Talansky beats Van Garderen - 1.87:1 odds
Pinot beats Andy Schleck - 1.87:1 odds
The first two I feel are incredibly good odds, particularly the Majka bet so I've put a few dollars on each of them. I was on the fence about Talansky beating Van Garderen so I haven't put much on it. Pinot beating Andy is just... astonishingly good money. I have about $20 on that.
EDIT: And I placed some bets for stage 1 too:
Cavendish to win the stge (3.25:1)
Matthews to beat Gerrans (1.50:1)
Danny Van Boppel to beat Goss (2.15:1)
Rojas to beat Haussler (1.87:1) Considering Goss isn't racing you have got that easy...
Matthews wrote on his facebook page that he will ride this morning and make a decision as to whether he starts the tour after that ride. |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 04-07-2014 09:17
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I had no hugh interest to start a discussion..what is best race tour or giro.
It's matter of taste.
For me Giro more pure cycling race between 4-5 leaders.
Tdf is more media circus with race included. Like Kreuziger ban is part of that show..not Coockson not UCI. Just tour PR."We are biggest who will fight against doping"..yeaah right?! Like they did not recieved Armstrong dirty money. If not directly then with he's success..and let him run he's show.
Like most americans knows there is only one cycling race at europe le tour. Tour is still most talked and money spending GT into year. Who does not like a tour.
Poor Vuelta has been just Tour rebound..thanks to calendar. Despite that still important and great race..best for young GT guys to start learning big tours.
Edited by Guido Mukk on 04-07-2014 09:20
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| Anderis |
Posted on 04-07-2014 09:21
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CountArach wrote:
The first two I feel are incredibly good odds, particularly the Majka bet so I've put a few dollars on each of them.
I would be really surprised if Majka ends up in the top10. It's rare to combine good GC ride in both Giro and Tour, even more so for such a young rider like Majka, even more so if he didn't expect to ride TdF at all and should be quite a bit from his peak form at the beginning of the race.
I bet he won't bother losing much time on some flattish-hillish stages as well as on cobbles. |
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 04-07-2014 09:22
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FYI I'm making a TdF thread so we don't Zabel, Betancur and Teruel each other. |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 04-07-2014 10:05
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Anderis wrote:
CountArach wrote:
The first two I feel are incredibly good odds, particularly the Majka bet so I've put a few dollars on each of them.
I would be really surprised if Majka ends up in the top10. It's rare to combine good GC ride in both Giro and Tour, even more so for such a young rider like Majka, even more so if he didn't expect to ride TdF at all and should be quite a bit from his peak form at the beginning of the race.
I bet he won't bother losing much time on some flattish-hillish stages as well as on cobbles.
Oh yeah I know but it is still great odds for someone who has the potential to reach it when on form.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 04-07-2014 10:08
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Anderis wrote:
CountArach wrote:
The first two I feel are incredibly good odds, particularly the Majka bet so I've put a few dollars on each of them.
I would be really surprised if Majka ends up in the top10. It's rare to combine good GC ride in both Giro and Tour, even more so for such a young rider like Majka, even more so if he didn't expect to ride TdF at all and should be quite a bit from his peak form at the beginning of the race.
I bet he won't bother losing much time on some flattish-hillish stages as well as on cobbles.
+ biggest issue is ,that Majka is most likely at Tour only to work fo Contador.
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