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Vuelta Ciclista al Pais Vasco
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 06-04-2013 16:58
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Miguel98 wrote:
Smal wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Smal wrote:
Wiggins is definitely nowhere near as suspicious as Quintana though.
Of course. A guy who had no major wins until he was 31 is clearly nowhere near as suspicious as a 22 year old winner of the Avenir.
I'd say winning numerous gold medals and world championships is a much better achievement than winning an under 23's race, like. Much, much better in fact. In fact winning an under 23's race doesn't even compare.
Winning on track. Wiggins, till 2009, couldn't even pass a hill. Then, in the Tour, he surprises everyone and finishe's 6th.
Not trying to defend Wiggins but in 2009 Wiggins rode for Garmin-Slipstream, even Issoisso believes that team rides 100% clean. |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:00
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World Champion
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It's really strange how some people here defend the riders they like and accuse the riders they don't like. As always, I'm giving Quintana the benefit of the doubt, he's just a talented rider and it's good to see he keeps making excellent progress!
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:00
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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kumazan wrote:
Not that much better, because, face it, beyond the UK and Australia, not many countries give a flying fuck about the track.
I've seen his reaction many times over the years. For british and australians it's often hard to believe that a very large percentage of road cycling fans literally do not even know that track cycling is a thing that exists, or in fact that a Velodrome is a very very rare thing to find outside of those countries and France
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Not trying to defend Wiggins but in 2009 Wiggins rode for Garmin-Slipstream, even Issoisso believes that team rides 100% clean.
Hell no. No matter how good the intentions of a team, any rider can get on the drugs at any time without any control by the team
Edited by issoisso on 06-04-2013 17:01
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:00
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World Champion
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fosforgasXIII wrote:
Miguel98 wrote:
Smal wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Smal wrote:
Wiggins is definitely nowhere near as suspicious as Quintana though.
Of course. A guy who had no major wins until he was 31 is clearly nowhere near as suspicious as a 22 year old winner of the Avenir.
I'd say winning numerous gold medals and world championships is a much better achievement than winning an under 23's race, like. Much, much better in fact. In fact winning an under 23's race doesn't even compare.
Winning on track. Wiggins, till 2009, couldn't even pass a hill. Then, in the Tour, he surprises everyone and finishe's 6th.
Not trying to defend Wiggins but in 2009 Wiggins rode for Garmin-Slipstream, even Issoisso believes that team rides 100% clean.
That he doesn't know. Garmin has or had Vaughters, but e.g., if Garmin was doped, we'd see Farrar win everything and Talansky doing everything good. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 11:27
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:01
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
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fosforgasXIII wrote:
Not trying to defend Wiggins but in 2009 Wiggins rode for Garmin-Slipstream, even Issoisso believes that team rides 100% clean.
That's one of the reasons why I think isoisso's wrong.
Hesjedal would be another one. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:02
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Tour de France Champion
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Aquarius wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Not trying to defend Wiggins but in 2009 Wiggins rode for Garmin-Slipstream, even Issoisso believes that team rides 100% clean.
That's one of the reasons why I think isoisso's wrong.
Hesjedal would be another one.
See above. As for Hesjedal, I've railed on him many times
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Smal |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:02
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Aquarius wrote:
Smal wrote:
I'd say winning numerous gold medals and world championships is a much better achievement than winning an under 23's race, like. Much, much better in fact. In fact winning an under 23's race doesn't even compare.
Pursuit : little competition, and efforts that are almost all about VO2 max (max power on 5 minutes).
Tour de l'Avenir : a field with all the best U23 in the world, a selective route and, it is, of course, a stage race with actual mountains.
I wonder which is the most significant for stage racers.
Well, actually I don't.
Outstanding VO2 max numbers obviously translate to all forms of cycling though. It's far more than someone's ability to ride for 5 minutes.
Anyway, I came here to discuss Quintana, if people can't do that sensibly (isso) without attacking another team altogether then what's the point? |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:04
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issoisso wrote:
Hell no. No matter how good the intentions of a team, any rider can get on the drugs at any time without any control by the team
With a thing like the Profile of Record Power that FDJeux are running nowadays, an alarm bell should have rung at Garmin though.
Wiggins got suddenly lighter and more powerful, so his W/kg diagrams would/must have shown an absurd evolution that has very few plausible explanation. |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:05
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Smal wrote:
Anyway, I came here to discuss Quintana, if people can't do that sensibly (isso) without attacking another team altogether then what's the point?
On Quintana: I don't think you can make an appropiate judgment from an isolated performance, specially in a hilly course, which suits the climbers better than a completely flat one, and with terrible weather, meaning that bike handling and willingness to take risks means a lot.
If Quintana smashes Porte in a flat TT, than that'd be something.
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| Smal |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:07
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kumazan wrote:
Smal wrote:
Anyway, I came here to discuss Quintana, if people can't do that sensibly (isso) without attacking another team altogether then what's the point?
On Quintana: I don't think you can make an appropiate judgment from an isolated performance, specially in a hilly course, which suits the climbers better than a completely flat one, and with terrible weather, meaning that bike handling and willingness to take risks means a lot.
If Quintana smashes Porte in a flat TT, than that'd be something.
I wasn't basing it entirely on today, as I said earlier. I'm basing it on the last year. |
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:07
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 845
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To me Wiggins is using doping but so are Quintana and also Garmin riders.
I did just find it weird how some people think that Garmin rides clean except for Wiggins. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:08
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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Smal wrote:
Outstanding VO2 max numbers obviously translate to all forms of cycling though. It's far more than someone's ability to ride for 5 minutes.
Rubens Bertogliati has the highest VO2Max on record for a cyclist. Remind me again where his Tour de France trophies are.
Smal wrote:
Anyway, I came here to discuss Quintana, if people can't do that sensibly (isso) without attacking another team altogether then what's the point?
I'm not attacking another team, I'm attacking your massive hipocrisy and the fact that you're a walking stereotype.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:08
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
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Funny that there are still people foolish enough to go into a discussion with issoisso. When will they learn? 
THE MAN PICKS YOU APART UNTIL YOU CRY!  |
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| Smowz |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:09
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Team Leader
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It was a wet and wild Basque tour, but a brilliant one for Colombian riders.
Quintana, Henao and Betencur all had fantastic races, they could all be factors in the Ardennes, I fancy Henao has shown slightly more acceleration over this week but we shall see.
Quintana has a wonderful skill set. Great climber, good acceleration, very strong against the clock and also a wonderful descender.
The last couple of winners of this race, since Contador's double have been practically collecting cycling pensions. I enjoy seeing the fresh faces and we have had some good racing again.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:10
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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kumazan wrote:
Smal wrote:
Anyway, I came here to discuss Quintana, if people can't do that sensibly (isso) without attacking another team altogether then what's the point?
On Quintana: I don't think you can make an appropiate judgment from an isolated performance, specially in a hilly course, which suits the climbers better than a completely flat one, and with terrible weather, meaning that bike handling and willingness to take risks means a lot.
If Quintana smashes Porte in a flat TT, than that'd be something.
Exactly me feelings
fosforgasXIII wrote:
To me Wiggins is using doping but so are Quintana and also Garmin riders.
I did just find it weird how some people think that Garmin rides clean except for Wiggins.
Me personally, there's no way I think Garmin rides clean (Nuyens, anyone?). I do however genuinely believe Vaughters tries to run a clean team. For many reasons, but to name one as an example: if you just ask him directly he'll give you the blood profiles for anyone on the team and explain anything you ask him about them.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| kumazan |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:11
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Posts: 6662
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Smal wrote:
I wasn't basing it entirely on today, as I said earlier. I'm basing it on the last year.
I just can't see what's so suspicious in a young talented climber climbing well. He's riding for Movistar/abarca Sports, so I won't say he's clean, but I definitely can't see anything from last year that makes him so terribly suspicious, other than that Dauphiné stage, which in my opinion is not enough.
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| Smal |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:12
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issoisso wrote:
Smal wrote:
Outstanding VO2 max numbers obviously translate to all forms of cycling though. It's far more than someone's ability to ride for 5 minutes.
Rubens Bertogliati has the highest VO2Max on record for a cyclist. Remind me again where his Tour de France trophies are.
Yeah well he's basically Italian though, so he probably can't be arsed to train very hard. 
Ian Butler wrote:
Funny that there are still people foolish enough to go into a discussion with issoisso. When will they learn?
THE MAN PICKS YOU APART UNTIL YOU CRY!
If picking someone apart just means being extremely condescending and not actually making any points without insulting people then I might actually cry.
Edited by Smal on 06-04-2013 17:13
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| kumazan |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:14
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Team Leader
Posts: 6662
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Smal wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Smal wrote:
Outstanding VO2 max numbers obviously translate to all forms of cycling though. It's far more than someone's ability to ride for 5 minutes.
Rubens Bertogliati has the highest VO2Max on record for a cyclist. Remind me again where his Tour de France trophies are.
Yeah well he's basically Italian though, so he probably can't be arsed to train very hard.
He's basically Swiss though. And using more ridiculous stereotypes won't help you.
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| Smal |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:15
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kumazan wrote:
Smal wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Smal wrote:
Outstanding VO2 max numbers obviously translate to all forms of cycling though. It's far more than someone's ability to ride for 5 minutes.
Rubens Bertogliati has the highest VO2Max on record for a cyclist. Remind me again where his Tour de France trophies are.
Yeah well he's basically Italian though, so he probably can't be arsed to train very hard.
He's basically Swiss though. And using more ridiculous stereotypes won't help you.
Well this isso chap seems to be well liked around here and all he's doing is using stereotypes |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-04-2013 17:17
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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I think saying I'm "using" you is a going a bit too far
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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