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News in September
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 30-09-2012 14:25
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Let's remind some of the names that probably gonna be their: Pozzo, Rujano (probably and if he is in a good shape), Antón, Nibali or Fuglsang. All of them good climbers, not as good as Wiggins, but they are attackers, not like VdB or others riders. |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 30-09-2012 14:26
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CountArach wrote:
Alakagom wrote:
Miguel98 wrote:
I think the question is: if Wiggins rides the Giro, will he hang in the Tre Cime di Lavaredo?
Depends who comes really. I don't think Giro will have a great line-up this year, and if there's no punchy climbers that will try to attack and not follow Wiggo train ( as most did at the Tour ), plus no-one to disrupt inevitable Wiggo train. Then he will hang on. I'd expect with this line - up Wiggo could win the Giro the way he did Tour ( depending who comes though ).
Zandio - Lopez - Siutstou - Cataldo - Henao - Wiggins
I have to agree, Sky will definitely take the strongest team and there aren't likely to be too many other strong riders to oppose them (maybe Purito will ride it again?). The biggest problem for Wiggins will be that the Giro climbs don't suit him as much as the Tour climbs.
Yep, Purito would make this intresting. However, he would really need to attack further than 1km out to win this with 50km of ITT. And that may be challenge, with Sky controlling it. Purito is no Contador afterall.
And definitely Wiggins won't enjoy the climbs. However, if he takes it over winter and does the same preparation he did as last year but with climbs suited to Giro, I can see him doing okay. He will never be the best at them compared to Purito etc. but he will be decent enough to win this with right training.
Will be interesting if he has the motivation to do so after accomplishing two of his biggest goals in career this year though.
Edited by Alakagom on 30-09-2012 14:28
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| CountArach |
Posted on 30-09-2012 14:31
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Miguel98 wrote:
Let's remind some of the names that probably gonna be their: Pozzo, Rujano (probably and if he is in a good shape), Antón, Nibali or Fuglsang. All of them good climbers, not as good as Wiggins, but they are attackers, not like VdB or others riders.
Pozzovivo and Rujano (if he feels like it) are definitely better climbers than Wiggins. Their problem is that they can't do anything else.
I think Nibali will probably ride the Tour, unless something has been confirmed that I can't remember.
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 30-09-2012 14:34
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But if they gain enough time in the mountains, they can try to defend in the TT. Fuglsang if he rides, will be a trouble, only if he does good in the mountains. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2012 14:39
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CountArach wrote:
I think Nibali will probably ride the Tour, unless something has been confirmed that I can't remember.
Nibali Giro-Vuelta. Confirmed. Contador is considering riding.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 30-09-2012 14:39
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I'm pretty sure that Nibali is targeting the Giro next year. Fuglsang will lead Astana at the Tour.
If Wiggins wins the Giro as well, I'll seriously kill myself. Vamos Purito!
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 30-09-2012 14:40
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CountArach wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
1 Mountain stage over 150km is ridiculous.
Fewer tired riders on the final climb = more attacks. Also we are more likely to get television coverage of all the mountains that way.
Means no one is tired, so all the attacks are pulled together.
Alp in 2011 was help up as an excellent stages, but all the favourites came in together.
You need long stages to create gaps.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 30-09-2012 14:40
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issoisso wrote:
CountArach wrote:
I think Nibali will probably ride the Tour, unless something has been confirmed that I can't remember.
Nibali Giro-Vuelta. Confirmed. Contador is considering riding.
Ah sweet, didn't remember that. Well that is certainly interesting though I can't see Nibali breaking the Sky train. If Contador were to ride on the other hand...
Though I doubt he will.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2012 14:48
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mb2612 wrote:
Means no one is tired, so all the attacks are pulled together.
That was the argument of Henry Desgrange against it, circa 1919. The 1920s showed that that isn't the case (CountArach's argument is actually what happens), so races have become shorter and shorter over the years, and continue to get shorter to this day
mb2612 wrote:
Alp in 2011 was help up as an excellent stages, but all the favourites came in together.
You need long stages to create gaps.
?
The yellow jersey lost over three minutes. Precisely because being a short stage, there were attacks from the start. In all the longer stages he finished right there with them.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 07-12-2025 08:30
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 30-09-2012 14:51
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issoisso wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
Alp in 2011 was help up as an excellent stages, but all the favourites came in together.
You need long stages to create gaps.
?
The yellow jersey lost over three minutes. Precisely because being a short stage, there were attacks from the start. In all the longer stages he finished right there with them.
you cant use Voeckler in that counter, as he is not a GT rider
beyond that the rest of the main riders were together
Short stages can be exciting, as can long stages
neither one is better as a base
Stages dont make racing - Riders make racing!!
you could have a 500km stage with 1m of ascent and it can be more exciting than a 100km stage with 6000m of ascent, its all about the riders...
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| Gino_Bartali |
Posted on 30-09-2012 14:53
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I don't rly like the 'wiggins may do the giro' thing.
I'd really like to see contador and wiggins in top shape in the tour (without doing the giro before, this normally exhausts too much).
a contador in top shape is probably the only one who could have challenged wiggins and the 'sky train' in this years tour |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 30-09-2012 15:01
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TheManxMissile wrote:
you cant use Voeckler in that counter, as he is not a GT rider
Yet he he finished with the rest of the contenders in all the long mountain stages that mb argues produce gaps
TheManxMissile wrote:
beyond that the rest of the main riders were together
Actually there was a 57 seconds gap between them. A bigger gap than any of the longer stages
TheManxMissile wrote:
Short stages can be exciting, as can long stages
neither one is better as a base
Stages dont make racing - Riders make racing!!
you could have a 500km stage with 1m of ascent and it can be more exciting than a 100km stage with 6000m of ascent, its all about the riders...
Riders make the racing in conjunction with the course. If you were correct, flat stages wouldn't be for sprinters.
Edited by issoisso on 30-09-2012 15:02
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| FreitasPCM |
Posted on 30-09-2012 15:20
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
If Wiggins wins the Giro as well, I'll seriously kill myself. Vamos Purito!
Stages 14 and 20 don't seem to suit him. I don't know, maybe a top-5 will be a realistic shot. |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 30-09-2012 17:01
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issoisso wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
you cant use Voeckler in that counter, as he is not a GT rider
Yet he he finished with the rest of the contenders in all the long mountain stages that mb argues produce gaps
TheManxMissile wrote:
beyond that the rest of the main riders were together
Actually there was a 57 seconds gap between them. A bigger gap than any of the longer stages
TheManxMissile wrote:
Short stages can be exciting, as can long stages
neither one is better as a base
Stages dont make racing - Riders make racing!!
you could have a 500km stage with 1m of ascent and it can be more exciting than a 100km stage with 6000m of ascent, its all about the riders...
Riders make the racing in conjunction with the course. If you were correct, flat stages wouldn't be for sprinters.
Voekler, rode massively stupidly, almost deliberately throwing away the jersey.
Sanchez Contador and Rolland were all allowed to go clear, while everyone else rode in together.
Compare to the 200km stage the day before, where there were 3 2-man groups in the first 45 riders.
On another note, I would also be pretty irritated if the Giro is Wiggins vs Nibali. We know who wins there, I want to see Wiggins race Andy and Contador
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 30-09-2012 20:01
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mb2612 wrote:
On another note, I would also be pretty irritated if the Giro is Wiggins vs Nibali. We know who wins there, I want to see Wiggins race Andy and Contador
Wiggins was the better climber of those two in the Tour de France yeah, but the steep climbs of the Giro aren't the same. Plus, it's not the same to ride with a good time cushion thanks to two long flat ITTs than with the time you win on one. For me a Nibbles vs Wiggo Giro would be interesting enough, plus all the other contenders of course.
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 30-09-2012 20:17
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issoisso wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
Means no one is tired, so all the attacks are pulled together.
That was the argument of Henry Desgrange against it, circa 1919. The 1920s showed that that isn't the case (CountArach's argument is actually what happens), so races have become shorter and shorter over the years, and continue to get shorter to this day
It is worth noting though that Desgrange's era had very little to do with modern cycling. Milan-San Remo would have been considered a short stage back in the first two decades of cycling.
On this issue in general though, I think it really revolves around the teams and the riders. For instance, in the Tour this year, the shortness of the mountain stages was an issue, because it meant that Sky had that much less ground to cover. If you had much longer stages, they may not have been able to control the race that tightly. Obviously, as a race organizer you can't design the race that way, you have to build stages that you think will be the most exciting regardless, and I'm not sure there is really a template for that. As such, I don't really think aiming towards either shorter or longer stages in general is a good idea. Throw in a mix, and in all likelihood you'll get what you want.
With all that said, I think I'd just barely lean towards shorter stages, but just barely. Mainly because if they aren't exciting they're over quicker 
Edited by Deadpool on 30-09-2012 20:20
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 30-09-2012 21:06
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Keep in mind that pro cycling, or more broadly, competitive cycling, is about sponsors exposure, much more than the beauty of the sport, or sportive efficiency (otherwise not even the French would try a break-of-the-day on a pan-flat TDF stage). That requires media coverage, whose pinnacle is TV broadcasting, and an audience. Short stages make it for more entertainment per unit of time, which is probably "good for the show". The show is what brings the TV audience. Plus shorter stages also make it for a more predictable timing, which helps scheduling TV broadcasting.
As I wrote not that long ago, I think it betrays the essence of cycling, but I can understand modern sports requirements. |
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| fernando97 |
Posted on 30-09-2012 22:06
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https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rodri...i-lavaredo
Purito looks to ride the Giro. It could be an interesting battle if Wiggo and Nibbles are going to be there!  |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 30-09-2012 22:47
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Logical, even with the Tour reducing again the flat ITT mileage (sigh) the Giro and the Vuelta will always suit more a rider like him, so good for him that he's not falling in the usual, and ridiculous, total focus on the Tour that other GC contenders have.
This time, though, with a proper ITT he'll need to ride more aggressively, wasting chances like at Colle Molella can't happen again.
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| johnnyjur |
Posted on 30-09-2012 22:52
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kumazan wrote:
Logical, even with the Tour reducing again the flat ITT mileage (sigh) the Giro and the Vuelta will always suit more a rider like him, so good for him that he's not falling in the usual, and ridiculous, total focus on the Tour that other GC contenders have.
This time, though, with a proper ITT he'll need to ride more aggressively, wasting chances like at Colle Molella can't happen again.
The Giro TT isn't really pan flat either though.
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