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Tour de France 2012: Pre-Race thread
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 26-06-2012 22:14
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Can rogers still ride 7th place? I don't know about that  |
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| Vien |
Posted on 26-06-2012 22:18
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Ian Butler wrote:
Can rogers still ride 7th place? I don't know about that
Remember he got 9th in 2006, and he's in the form of his life 
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 26-06-2012 22:19
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2006, that's a long time ago 
I think he can surprise, but 7th is too optimistic I think |
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| ruben |
Posted on 26-06-2012 22:26
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Ian Butler wrote:
2006, that's a long time ago
I think he can surprise, but 7th is too optimistic I think
His domestique duties will surely get in the way |
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| Vien |
Posted on 26-06-2012 22:30
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ruben wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
2006, that's a long time ago
I think he can surprise, but 7th is too optimistic I think
His domestique duties will surely get in the way
A bit perhaps. But three guys in the top 10 was common during the EPO-period, and Sky dominated the field a bit like Telekom/US Postal so far this season. Plus he's better in TTing than Froome, that should compensate a lot.
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 26-06-2012 22:37
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Vien wrote:
ruben wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
2006, that's a long time ago
I think he can surprise, but 7th is too optimistic I think
His domestique duties will surely get in the way
A bit perhaps. But three guys in the top 10 was common during the EPO-period, and Sky dominated the field a bit like Telekom/US Postal so far this season. Plus he's better in TTing than Froome, that should compensate a lot.
Disagree. Postal Era was totally different too. I mean Botero or whoever basically climbing up the whole climb with Lance. It was 1-2, not like now, where Rogers would basically just be a Szmyd and then drop way off.
Since Rogers has been working on his climbing a few years ago, he's lost a bit of his TTing. Froome isn't actually terrible at TTing either, and besides I thought they were working for Wiggins? I could see Froome being up there, but not Rogers. When has Rogers ever been "up there" in the past few years?
He has no chance at a Top 10 imo, while Froome has a small chance if everything goes right, but I literally mean everything.
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| Vien |
Posted on 26-06-2012 22:44
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Second in the Dauphiné, third in its TT, first in the Bayern TT in front of Cancellara/Millar/Porte and fifth in Romandie aren't bad results if you ask me. Okay, I'm not sure about how he'll do in three weeks but to me that proves he's capable of keeping up with Wiggins for a long time.
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Posted on 22-11-2024 22:35
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 26-06-2012 22:51
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While I agree with you that Rogers has no chance in getting into the top 10 and Froome a slight chance, it was Heras, not Botero, who teared the peloton apart. Heras in his prime was probably the third best rider in the mountains. The stage to Plateau de Beille in 2002 is fantastic. T-Mobile was also absolutely gangbusters and could probably have had 3 riders in the top-5. Sky has no chance in doing that.
Edited by Riis123 on 26-06-2012 22:53
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 26-06-2012 22:54
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Riis123 wrote:
While I agree with you that Rogers has no chance in getting into the top 10 and Froome a slight chance, it was Heras, not Botero, who teared the peloton apart. Heras in his prime was probably the third best rider in the mountains. The stage to Plateau de Beille is fantastic. T-Mobile was also absolutely gangbusters and could probably have had 3 riders in the top-5.
Ah right, and of course. Botero was the one that could TT very well too, and Heras was a pure climber? Always mix them up for some reason.
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| kumazan |
Posted on 26-06-2012 23:01
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valverde321 wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
While I agree with you that Rogers has no chance in getting into the top 10 and Froome a slight chance, it was Heras, not Botero, who teared the peloton apart. Heras in his prime was probably the third best rider in the mountains. The stage to Plateau de Beille is fantastic. T-Mobile was also absolutely gangbusters and could probably have had 3 riders in the top-5.
Ah right, and of course. Botero was the one that could TT very well too, and Heras was a pure climber? Always mix them up for some reason.
Plus Botero was in a different team. That's probably a better way to set them apart.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 26-06-2012 23:05
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valverde321 wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
While I agree with you that Rogers has no chance in getting into the top 10 and Froome a slight chance, it was Heras, not Botero, who teared the peloton apart. Heras in his prime was probably the third best rider in the mountains. The stage to Plateau de Beille is fantastic. T-Mobile was also absolutely gangbusters and could probably have had 3 riders in the top-5.
Ah right, and of course. Botero was the one that could TT very well too, and Heras was a pure climber? Always mix them up for some reason.
Yep, even though, as far as i remember, Heras rode som good TTs in the Vuelta. You can easily mess the names of Rubiera, Mayo, Heras, Beloki and Botero up. What's common about these names is they where spectular dopers and was a guarantee for really exciting mountain stages. Much more than todays climbers - i hope they will refute me and bring on a show.
On another note, this video is really great to get in the right mood for the Tour: https://www.steephill.tv/players/youtu...mp;yr=2012 |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 26-06-2012 23:07
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kumazan wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
While I agree with you that Rogers has no chance in getting into the top 10 and Froome a slight chance, it was Heras, not Botero, who teared the peloton apart. Heras in his prime was probably the third best rider in the mountains. The stage to Plateau de Beille is fantastic. T-Mobile was also absolutely gangbusters and could probably have had 3 riders in the top-5.
Ah right, and of course. Botero was the one that could TT very well too, and Heras was a pure climber? Always mix them up for some reason.
Plus Botero was in a different team. That's probably a better way to set them apart.
I blame Phil and Paul, I'm sure I heard them say in one of the 2004 TDF stages (which I have on my computer) something along the lines of "there goes Botero, he used to be a worker for Armstrong, but now he's got his own team and can fly free now!" And I swear the same was said with Basso.
So I take none of the blame whatsoever
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| Squire |
Posted on 26-06-2012 23:24
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The difference from the Postal days with multiple riders in the top 10 of the Tour, was that most of those riders could've been leaders of almost any other team. Sky don't have past winners of the Giro or Vuelta or previous 4th placed riders in the Tour as Wiggins' domestiques.
And when speaking of Rogers' chances, Tenerife can't hold a candle to Freiburg.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 27-06-2012 09:50
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I think they need everyone they can spare in Wiggin's protection if he wants to survive the mountains. |
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| ruben |
Posted on 27-06-2012 12:12
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Rabobank has meanwhile said that podium is not a realistic goal for the team. They feel that in modern cycling most of the differences are made in the time trial and the difference in mountains are only seconds. And with this Tour being ITT heavy they think podium will be very hard/impossible for Gesink/Mollema. They are in the Tour for a stage win and highest possible GC placing they can reach.. They hope Gesink and Mollema will both be in the top 10 |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 27-06-2012 12:24
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If riders (not specifically Rabobank's) rode less cowardly, then mountains could actually do bigger time gaps than they do now.
One less rider per team could also make the race more open, I've been saying that for years, plus one or two more teams could be invited, without safety issues. |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 27-06-2012 13:24
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Gesink could ride at least top 5, if he'd take some risks. You lose some, you gain some, that's the way it should be. To give a popular example: De Gendt risked his 8th (was it?) place, he gained and got to 4th, eventually 3th, but he could've lost 10 places just the same. (Now he's he good TT rider, but that doesn't matter.) |
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| Vien |
Posted on 27-06-2012 13:29
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Gesink isn't a bad TTer either. He was a very good one a few years ago, he just had to adapt to professional cycling.
There's one difference through, Gesink is Gesink, and De Gendt is "just" De Gendt. I don't think the teams will let De Gendt go next year, but he was yet to prove himself in the GC of a grand tour.
Gesink won't get top 5 if you ask me. IF he keeps out of misery in the first stages, he still has to be able to prove his leg won't cause trouble in the third week. Besides I don't like Rababank's statements either: "Uhm... Yes we have Gesink.. But we also have Mollema! And if he can't do it we also have Kruijswijk!". They don't look confident to me.
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| CountArach |
Posted on 27-06-2012 13:30
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ruben wrote:
Rabobank has meanwhile said that podium is not a realistic goal for the team. They feel that in modern cycling most of the differences are made in the time trial and the difference in mountains are only seconds. And with this Tour being ITT heavy they think podium will be very hard/impossible for Gesink/Mollema. They are in the Tour for a stage win and highest possible GC placing they can reach.. They hope Gesink and Mollema will both be in the top 10
I'm thinking Gesink can get a podium this year, given that most of the other big contenders (other than Evans/Wiggins of course) aren't incredible TT riders and Gesink has been riding well in that discipline all year. I've also put a very small amount of money on Rabobank to get the team classification because those two together with Kruijswijk could see some really strong results in the mountain stages while a lot of other teams will be killing themselves for GC.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 27-06-2012 16:36
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I personally see VdB performing better than Gesink in this tour, if nothing goes wrong. |
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