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Formula 1 2013 Season
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 27-10-2013 16:34
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World Champion
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the moment that the championship was decided: https://www.formul...14748.html |
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| FreitasPCM |
Posted on 27-10-2013 18:18
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Grand Tour Champion
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...is it 2014 already? |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 01-11-2013 02:42
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So did I understand correctly Maldonado gets the Lotus spot over Hülkenberg?...
National bias aside, that's sad. Expectable, probably understandable, but still sad.
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 01-11-2013 13:27
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Tour de France Champion
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Four time World Champion, you have to admit that Vettel is simply Great 
I won't bother copycat what issoisso wrote a couple of pages ago, but the proof of Vettel's talent is still to be shown. Of course he's not a bad driver, he's just, maybe, somewhere around the 10th best position in terms of talent on the current F1 grid. That probably counts as great overall, but not among F1 drivers.
I'd disagree. Vettel is a GREAT driver, potentially the best on the grid right now. Doesn't matter how goo your car is, you still have to drive it to victory. He consistently has done so to win 4 titles. The only other drivers to win 4 titles are Fangio (arguably the best ever), Schumacher (arguably the best driver ever) and Prost (also arguably the best ever). Vettel has done exactly what these guys have done now, there is no questioning his ability to drive or his talent.
But Vettel, so far, has shown that he is an AVERAGE racer. Very few times has he shown real ability to go wheel-to-wheel with other cars and fight back against the odds or out perform his car. He has done it (Monza 08 and Brazil 12 come to mind) but equally he has not (Germany 11? and Spa 10).
Any talk about greatest F1 drivers of all time have to include Vettel. He has won 4 titles, only 4 men have done that. It's more than Stewart, Senna, Lauda, Clark and Alonso, all of whom are included in such talks. Not saying he is the best/greatest but you cannot discount him. No-one wins 4 titles with being great.
Totally agree with you on this |
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| The Hobbit |
Posted on 01-11-2013 15:06
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Any talk about greatest F1 drivers of all time have to include Vettel. He has won 4 titles, only 4 men have done that. It's more than Stewart, Senna, Lauda, Clark and Alonso, all of whom are included in such talks. Not saying he is the best/greatest but you cannot discount him. No-one wins 4 titles with being great.
Don't forget that of those 4 had shorter careers than they would have done. When we talk about great cyclists we may think of someone like Fausto Coppi as good as Indurain or Hinault, not because he won loads, but because he would have been even better had he not been unfortunate enough to be at his peak during the war.
Also, seriously, who outside of Spain thinks Alonso is the best driver ever, he's nowhere near as strong, he's one if the best ATM, but not ever by a long long way. |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 01-11-2013 15:37
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Any talk about greatest F1 drivers of all time have to include Vettel. He has won 4 titles, only 4 men have done that. It's more than Stewart, Senna, Lauda, Clark and Alonso, all of whom are included in such talks. Not saying he is the best/greatest but you cannot discount him. No-one wins 4 titles with being great.
Only if you define greatness by how successful they were. Otherwise no way you can include Vettel there.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 01-11-2013 15:45
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kumazan wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Any talk about greatest F1 drivers of all time have to include Vettel. He has won 4 titles, only 4 men have done that. It's more than Stewart, Senna, Lauda, Clark and Alonso, all of whom are included in such talks. Not saying he is the best/greatest but you cannot discount him. No-one wins 4 titles with being great.
Only if you define greatness by how successful they were. Otherwise no way you can include Vettel there.
I don't define greatest by success, because that would be Michael by a long distance. Greatness is subjective at best, and for me the greatest is Fangio or Prost, and for most is Senna.
But not including Vettel because he has the best car, or because he is not the best racer is a joke. I would never call Vettel the greatest (at the moment) but he has shown all the qualities needed (speed, durability, luck, success).
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 21-11-2024 21:08
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| kumazan |
Posted on 01-11-2013 16:23
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It's "easy" to show speed and success when you have the best car by such ridiculous margin. Likewise, it's only logical that you'll have less incidents when in most races you're only racing against the clock.
To include him in a discussion about the greatest drivers ever (not to call him the greatest, which he obviously isn't, but to just include him in the debate) he'll have to show what he can do with a not-from-another-galaxy car, which I hope will happen next year. Unlikely I know, but one has to hope.
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 01-11-2013 18:22
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World Champion
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cio93 wrote:
So did I understand correctly Maldonado gets the Lotus spot over Hülkenberg?...
National bias aside, that's sad. Expectable, probably understandable, but still sad.
Maldonado & Grosjean in the same team 
Crashtus  |
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| MrUfo87 |
Posted on 01-11-2013 18:26
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SSJ2Luigi wrote:
cio93 wrote:
So did I understand correctly Maldonado gets the Lotus spot over Hülkenberg?...
National bias aside, that's sad. Expectable, probably understandable, but still sad.
Maldonado & Grosjean in the same team
Crashtus
Grosjean not anymore. He has a great season with five third places.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 01-11-2013 18:55
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kumazan wrote:
It's "easy" to show speed and success when you have the best car by such ridiculous margin. Likewise, it's only logical that you'll have less incidents when in most races you're only racing against the clock.
To include him in a discussion about the greatest drivers ever (not to call him the greatest, which he obviously isn't, but to just include him in the debate) he'll have to show what he can do with a not-from-another-galaxy car, which I hope will happen next year. Unlikely I know, but one has to hope.
Now i'm about to bring a world of issues my way but... Not that different from Senna.
Some time (rather short) at a lower team that had some decent pace given the right conditions.
Moved up to the team with the best car. Went on to win several titles in a short space of time.
It's not a perfect comparison, but there are enough similarities for me. Hard to argue that the McLaren was not the best for most of his time with them. His previous Lotus was quick given the right situation.
Admittedly the rest of the cars were close, kind of like 2010 and 2012, when talent did make a difference.
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 03-11-2013 12:52
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I'm already ready for a Webber "mechanical" failure and Vettel to match Schumacher's record...  |
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| miggi133 |
Posted on 03-11-2013 13:12
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And Vettel leads from the first corner onwards again... YAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWNNN. What else is on right now?
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 03-11-2013 13:18
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Miguel98 wrote:
I'm already ready for a Webber "mechanical" failure and Vettel to match Schumacher's record...
You named it. Plus a fucked up start from Webber.
Somehow I'm glad I can't watch it this year (it's on a pay-per-view channel now). |
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 03-11-2013 13:30
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Vettel stops.... And still comes out in 1st ahead of the Ferraris who haven't even stopped. |
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| FreitasPCM |
Posted on 03-11-2013 18:51
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Grand Tour Champion
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Complete snore fest today. I will ask again "is it 2014 already?" |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 10-11-2013 15:06
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Tour de France Champion
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Raikkonen to miss Austin and Brazil!!!
Will have surgery to deal with his back instead. And i mean, if he's not going to be paid, why turn up... Smooth moves Lotus, at leas they have 4th in the WCC sealed... I try and like this team but they seem to love fucking things up for themselves
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| The Hobbit |
Posted on 10-11-2013 15:09
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Small Tour Specialist
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Really? Well that Surgery is convenient. Also, it's good to see Valsecchi get a go, or is it D-d-d-d'ambrosio? Sure hope not, remember Monza last time |
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 10-11-2013 16:20
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World Champion
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| MrUfo87 |
Posted on 10-11-2013 16:28
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I'm curious to see who'll take his place.
Here are just two of my random thoughts.
A lot of people love Raikkönen because of his racing-skills and he's a pure driver and stuff like that. But actually I see him as an arrogant person. He's only looking for a lot of money. Okay, he's a good driver, but I don't praise him just like a lot of people do. Why would you consider about not starting the last two races because you don't get your salary on the right time? If you are a real racer you just start. And especially in a good car which Lotus has. You get your money, don't worry. But I don't see the real hero in him who see a lot of people. A real racer always race.
In South-Korea Alonso said that the tyres will hold on for five kilometres (which was funny because many really stopped in lap two in India). That boy from Pirelli Paul Hembery said that a real champion doesn't say things like this and stuff like that. But who were the one who wanted to change the Pirelli tyres the most? Exactly, three year in a row champion Red-Bull! You can see it from the funny side because Hembery doesn't see Red-Bull/Vettel as a real champion, but they are. At least, on paper. Or Hembery has some arrangements with Red-Bull. But it's just not fair that Hembery is saying such things. Chilton says: these tyres will only hold on for two laps. Change them! Hembery: You're not a champion so you have the rights to say these things and we'll change them for you. Well, it's how it works according to him! And of course, except from Red-Bull.
2010 was by far the best season the last few years, and in 2010 we had tyres from Bridgestone! And they could race on it for many laps! Just give them those tyres next season. And let's hope for more rain next season. The only part in the rain this season were the first few laps in Malaysia. And the qualifying in Belgium, which was great, but that's not a race.
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
