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No barriers in your mind
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| drugsdontwork |
Posted on 28-08-2008 23:07
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Free Agent
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If you test positive then YOU'RE A DOPER!
If you don't test positive then your on a special "dope" that no one can detect and YOU'RE A DOPER!
Ergo: EVERYONE'S A DOPER!!!!
Boring conversation, pointless argument, no one agrees, everyone loses and another disillusioned fan leaves the sport! 
Edited by drugsdontwork on 28-08-2008 23:08
Nobody is normal
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| brun sweater |
Posted on 29-08-2008 02:35
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 273
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nah, it's not so bad. Contador is not the evil. And even though he most probably have doped in the past, it's not like he isn't an amazing cyclist. I'm looking forward to see him the Vuelta! |
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 29-08-2008 06:03
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4882
Joined: 16-03-2007
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And then there was Slipstream and BMC.
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| MrContador |
Posted on 29-08-2008 07:19
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Domestique
Posts: 540
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matt493 wrote:
1. A lot. He had been found doped before but was never charged. He rode for all the Doped teams that got caught. Any connection.
2. goes with 3 
3. what are you talking about. He was the strongest in the tour last year. THink of it this way, guy who has no hope of winning clobbers guys who doped. hmmmmm wonder why. he was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO out of form in the Giro and the only men who could keep up with him Ricco (doped) Sella(doped). so I wonder if he is doped.
1. What you says is just your theories. Is Michael Creed a doper, just because he ride for Rock Racing?
2. I didn't understood what you was trying to say.
3. Yeah, he was the strongest but he didn't win easy. We saw Contador crack on Col d'Aubisque and that's the proof that Contador is a human, not a machine or doper like many on this forum, sadly enough, would like to think. And in the Giro? Just a jerk would think that he was doped then. You saw he had problems in the mountains, and he won the Giro just because of his TT skills. And he didn't won a stage. And it wasn't just Ricco and Sella who kept up with him. Simoni, Van Den Broeck, Rodriguez, Bruseghin, Di Luca, Pellizotti and many more sat with Contador up almost every mountain. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 29-08-2008 09:16
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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I love the "we saw him crack so he's not a doper" argument 
You heard it here first kids: with dope you have no limits so you never reach them.
We must tell Marc Lotz and all the other crappy cyclists who were doped that they weren't really doped. They couldn't have been, since they reached their limits on pretty much every race!
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 29-08-2008 09:33
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Not only Ricco and Sella (...) Simoni, Van Den Broeck, Rodriguez, Bruseghin, Di Luca, Pellizotti and many more.
I was about to write both Rodriguez and Pellizotti in bold characters, but I have a doubt now (about whether they've ever been caught, not about whether they've ever taken dope), so your point is ... a little weak ?
Do you have some basis in bio-physics ? Contador's power outputs are significantly above what can be expected from a perfectly trained and extremly talented non-doped human being.
That's more than a proof, although it has no leagal value... |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 29-08-2008 09:35
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
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matt493 wrote:
MrContador wrote:
Well, we will see. If Contador isn't caught until the end of 2009, will you then admit that he is clean?
you know how long it takes them to catch someone who doped. How long do you think Ullrich had been doping a year or two. HAHAHAHA
And what about Lance?
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 29-08-2008 09:35
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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drugsdontwork wrote:
If you test positive then YOU'RE A DOPER!
If you don't test positive then your on a special "dope" that no one can detect and YOU'RE A DOPER!
Ergo: EVERYONE'S A DOPER!!!!
Boring conversation, pointless argument, no one agrees, everyone loses and another disillusioned fan leaves the sport! No, not all pro cyclists are doped, I wouldn't dare risking to give a percentage. But to make it short, all podium contenders or monuments (MSR, RVV, P-R, LBL, GDL) winners are very certainly doped these days. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 29-08-2008 09:36
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
matt493 wrote:
MrContador wrote:
Well, we will see. If Contador isn't caught until the end of 2009, will you then admit that he is clean?
you know how long it takes them to catch someone who doped. How long do you think Ullrich had been doping a year or two. HAHAHAHA
And what about Lance? Corticoids in 1999, retroactive EPO test in 1999... UCI covering his ass up too... well... |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 29-08-2008 09:37
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
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And ultimately there is still doping in the sport, be it legal or not. Riders take at least 15 pills a day which means that although there is doping, it's just the boundaries that make it illegal
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| issoisso |
Posted on 29-08-2008 09:42
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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Aquarius wrote:
Not only Ricco and Sella (...) Simoni, Van Den Broeck, Rodriguez, Bruseghin, Di Luca, Pellizotti and many more.
I was about to write both Rodriguez and Pellizotti in bold characters, but I have a doubt now (about whether they've ever been caught, not about whether they've ever taken dope), so your point is ... a little weak ?
Do you have some basis in bio-physics ? Contador's power outputs are significantly above what can be expected from a perfectly trained and extremly talented non-doped human being.
That's more than a proof, although it has no leagal value...
Bruseghin was never convicted, he was just investigated as part of the 2001 raid.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 06:51
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Bot Agent
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| matt493 |
Posted on 29-08-2008 10:58
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Classics Specialist
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
matt493 wrote:
MrContador wrote:
Well, we will see. If Contador isn't caught until the end of 2009, will you then admit that he is clean?
you know how long it takes them to catch someone who doped. How long do you think Ullrich had been doping a year or two. HAHAHAHA
blah blah blah blah blah blah?
LEARN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dont ever bring up lance in a doping conversation.
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 29-08-2008 11:12
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7891
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err he can bring up anyone he wants in a doping conversation, thats the idea of the thread i believe.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| issoisso |
Posted on 29-08-2008 11:14
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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yeah, for example [randomly chooses a rider] Rujano is a doper!
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Wyman |
Posted on 29-08-2008 12:15
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Domestique
Posts: 645
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I think we all know AC stands for Aurélien Clerc
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| ladagnous |
Posted on 29-08-2008 12:31
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Stagiare
Posts: 214
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Lance was doped he had high testosterone level around 50/55 when he only had one ball which his biologically impossible.
So yes he was a doper even if he had some talent.
and we found EPO in one of his first tour sample but it as unectectable back then so he was never caught and nearly evrybody in his team have been caught for doped or admitted.
Contador had serious brain damage and was in reanimation in hospital for 6 week the a year after he wins TDF that his impossible
Both of those guy had serious problem and somehow a year after they won the hardest race so if they aren't doped ulrich, kloden and co weren't either |
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| drugsdontwork |
Posted on 29-08-2008 13:23
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Free Agent
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Er excuse..... me but is anybody on this forum to say what is and is not possible?????
One of the special things about the human race is that were capable of things that people often think are impossible! Granted, somethings are exceptional but that's their beauty.
If we're not careful, we'll end up labeling people as being dopers for no other reason than they are good at the sport. Are we saying that anyone who generates 450W of power when climbing, wins a GT or rides on a team with a doper is a doper themselves.
In arguments as sensative as this we've got to tread carefully. Personally I believe the only people who we can definatively call dopers are those who are caught, confess or test positive. Almost all other evidence is subjective.
I'd hate to be up in court with some of you guys on the jury, with the kind of evidence you accept I'd be going down for a long time!!!!
Before I get shot at, I'll just also say that I do believe that doping is going on (in all sports not just cycling) and that some exceptional performances are very questionable. However, to dismiss all athletes who perform exceptionally, as being dopers is not only wrong but narrow minded.
Nobody is normal
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| Crommy |
Posted on 29-08-2008 13:37
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World Champion
Posts: 10018
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The thing about wattages is the absolute maximum limit is an example of an absolutely perfect human (which nobody is close to, even the top cyclists/athletes) in perfect conditions (which again, very rarely occur). Anything above it is called impossible, because it really is impossible to do it naturally
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| ladagnous |
Posted on 29-08-2008 14:23
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Stagiare
Posts: 214
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ok I may not be aloud to say what his possible and impossible but I've done a bit of biology and lance case is impossible as he has one less ball and still produce "somehow" high testosterone level above average
Contador case is a bit more likely but if he does some sort of wattages that PHD people say it is impossible than I belive something is wrong with him |
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| MrContador |
Posted on 29-08-2008 14:33
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Domestique
Posts: 540
Joined: 26-03-2008
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matt493 wrote:
LEARN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dont ever bring up lance in a doping conversation.
But it's okay to say that Contador and every other guy is doped? I don't see the logic. |
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