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Tour of Qatar Discussion
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 09-06-2015 10:11
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World Champion
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roturn wrote:
I feel very fooled now.
How can someone like Bos participate in the sprint trains and get a decent 16th while Groenewegen in his 2nd season appearance has not even participated in a sprint yet?
I did not expect to really show something on those stages with 25 better sprinters. But come on. Theo Bos?
PCM14.
Teams of three somewhat strongest sprinters make trains + random dice throw says which other sprinters will contest the sprint and join the trains. Usually five-seven more sprinters in top30, rest are teammates from those three strong trains (see 6 Vesuvio riders in top30). Then 20-40 riders which are team leaders for overall + some teammates (in this race prologue specialists). And just only then the rest of sprinters, who were not choosen by dice roll.
Which kinda sucks with PT points calculation when you have no great sprint train. Vesuvio, Becherovka and usually Pokerstars i would think (this time Venchi making train instead) should score massive points throughout the year via these 5-6 riders in top30.
So likes of Guardini, Groenewengen Napoilitano or Lo Cicero now need to wait for better dice rolls, which will make them able to contest sprint. And Vanderbiest will be 90th for a change...
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 09-06-2015 10:12
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| tsmoha |
Posted on 09-06-2015 10:20
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Directeur Sportif
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Well, 7th from Gossy.. not too shabby, not too great.
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| ember |
Posted on 09-06-2015 10:22
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Team Leader
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Solid win by Bewley, congrats Roman!
Slightly worrying to see Kristoff in the perfect position, only to not be able to follow Bewley at all and go backwards on the final hundred meters. Not a great sign for the coming stages. Seeing the trains that was made and the wheel he got, that looked like a great chance for at least a top 10.
Thanks for the report, The Rider, nice reporting on the sprint  |
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| beagle |
Posted on 09-06-2015 10:28
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4200
Joined: 06-10-2007
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Manager of Polar in Man-Game
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 09-06-2015 10:29
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Team Manager
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Avin PCM14 complaint count: 4/5 races so far 
But massive points having 6 in the Top 30 on flat stages? No way.
Only Top 10 on stage at most score any stage ranking points, new time bonuses reduce the GC benefit of being consistently high if you don't get in the Top 10 at any point, and here in Qatar the point of the epilogue TT is to provide small gaps amongst riders too. All other PT stage races have climbs to cause gaps. Perhaps if there is a split in the bunch during a sprint then there may be an impact, but that is the only way I can see it having any sort of big effect. Leadout men may sometimes stay in the Top 10 at the finish for a small amount of points - but that is not new to PCM14.
I definitely posted about the new F1 time bonuses for sprinter stage races in a few places, 25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1. Apologies if this was not clear, or if I did not mention it in a clear enough way.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 09-06-2015 10:32
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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Enjoyable report, especially because it's not overly long Like this way of reporting, and will also allow a faster season! |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 09-06-2015 10:39
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Avin PCM14 complaint count: 4/5 races so far
I fear that it will be like 39/40 nearing the end of season. I will never get over the fact that we willingly use such a horrible engine. 
Is it annoying yet? It will be even worse 
You are right that word massive is over the top, but i suppose that people on s.t. in the end of stage race are sorted by the stage positions they accumulated during the stage race? That can mean a lot of riders in GC top50 for mentioned team who has several riders in top30 in few stages. There is quite a difference if you have 6 guys in top50 in GC or 1 inside top50 and rest 50-200th. Obviously Qatar cancels that somewhat as it ends with short TT.
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| roturn |
Posted on 09-06-2015 10:46
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It was same with PCM13 as well Avin.
As I said, I don`t even complain about Groenewegen not participating here. He is only a top30 sprinter. Was more annoyed in the DUC where he was a top10 sprinter. Here I just thought it`s funny that Bos can survive the high speed that late. Then again Cyanide really did not create a game with such kind of riders.
And what you say about trains. This is not too bad. Reward those teams, that bring lots of 2nd tier sprinters to support their leaders. Paying big wage to a top5 sprinter and you will get reward by having a sprint train. Nothing wrong about it. |
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| SotD |
Posted on 09-06-2015 10:49
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I wonder if I have missed some information about the race, but I don't think I would have put Coppel here if I knew how many bonus seconds was on offer. He will be lucky to get anyway near the top 10 with these amounts of bonus seconds.
Tzortzakis did relatively well here, although he lost pace in the end. He looked solid for 4th at one point, but 6th is also decent.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 09-06-2015 10:53
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roturn wrote:
It was same with PCM13 as well Avin.
I know, who says PCM13 was any better in terms of being shitty and suited for MG?
Just ignore me people, i will post my complaints and i will be happy.
If you think that almost whole team completely finishing in top30, while other 80+ sprinters are 90th is fine, okay, everybody has different optics.
I forget one thing and it bothers me - thanks for the report Rider!
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 09-06-2015 10:54
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| SotD |
Posted on 09-06-2015 11:09
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Ian Butler wrote:
Enjoyable report, especially because it's not overly long Like this way of reporting, and will also allow a faster season!
I agree... And especially stages like this there are no reason at all to invent any sort of details as nothing happens at all except for the breakaway riders gaining a few odd seconds. Very well done with both reports and pace.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 08:59
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| SotD |
Posted on 09-06-2015 11:11
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
roturn wrote:
It was same with PCM13 as well Avin.
I know, who says PCM13 was any better in terms of being shitty and suited for MG?
Just ignore me people, i will post my complaints and i will be happy.
If you think that almost whole team completely finishing in top30, while other 80+ sprinters are 90th is fine, okay, everybody has different optics.
I forget one thing and it bothers me - thanks for the report Rider!
But it does happen IRL aswell, so I don't see a problem. Often you see leadout sprinters ending somewhere in the region of 7-15th, and so they do here I guess...
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| Kami |
Posted on 09-06-2015 11:23
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I'm hoping Aberasturi will join the sprint in atleast one of the future stages, he really isn't that bad to be ending outside the top 50.
I'm guessing i will gain less than i had hoped for from this race, with the new bonification system. Most sprinters will most likely be able to stay ahead of the TT'ers in the GC.
Edited by Kami on 09-06-2015 11:24
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| Smowz |
Posted on 09-06-2015 13:40
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Yeah - I feel like a fool now that I completely missed that we were going to use this 'formula 1' style system for timings. Not sure it makes a huge difference though to season planning - if you have a top sprinter they should really be here in Qatar. That said I have two and I picked my second guy - not sure my strategy is quite right as SP 80 Holloway isn't even figuring in sprints!
I guess this is what I get for not paying enough attention - I can be added to those that simply didn't notice about those changes of is too old so forgot
But it does make a lot of sense to have the system of course, random breakaways basically get nullified and this is designed as a sprinters race with a small chrono at the end to offer a chance for TTers to pick up a stage but almost certainly negligible GC points.
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| Roman |
Posted on 09-06-2015 14:15
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Absolutely perfect start! It seems like Merino Criado was a better lead-out rider than Vesely in this stage, but on the other hand Howard did definetely a better job than Van der Lijke! That was probably the main reason why Bewley was able to beat Swift here, even through Swift is a better sprinter.
Thanks for all congratulations and I have to thank for the report too!
Btw I have to say I really like how the GC changed with this new bonification system. I believe if it works great like it seems like it is working, a similar bonification system could possibly work in all stages races, even through it would be possibly needed to lower the amount of bonification seconds given, but a bonification for all riders in top 10 looks really cool. Maybe even bonifications could be given on KoM sprints in some races, but I am not sure if PCM allows that and if PCM AI can handle it.
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| cio93 |
Posted on 09-06-2015 14:50
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
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THEO THE BOSS 
Seems like in the case I do promote, I gotta check out PCM15 closely and possibly invest into Ciolek first to not ragequit.
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 09-06-2015 15:42
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
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ember wrote:
Solid win by Bewley, congrats Roman!
Slightly worrying to see Kristoff in the perfect position, only to not be able to follow Bewley at all and go backwards on the final hundred meters. Not a great sign for the coming stages. Seeing the trains that was made and the wheel he got, that looked like a great chance for at least a top 10.
Thanks for the report, The Rider, nice reporting on the sprint
+1 for Kennaugh. Nicely positioned behind the Vesuvio-train, then fails completely when the sprint begins. But alright, there's a chance he's not really any better than that. |
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| Selwink |
Posted on 09-06-2015 17:18
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Grand Tour Champion
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This is going to be boring without echelons, especially if Bewley continues like this.
Luckily Bos performed slightly more realistic
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| cio93 |
Posted on 09-06-2015 17:19
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World Champion
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Bewley on his way to the individual crown already? This one wasn't convincing, but a win is a win.
Good reports The Rider, though one (albeit very small) thing I want to ask around about is the distance mentions in the sprint.
You report as if it was a real race, but at least I myself got so used to the 3k sprints in PCM that I find myself wondering where exactly the race is at the moment, and therefore how to judge the current sprint situation.
If the screenshot doesn't include the flamme rouge or the finish line, that makes it a bit confusing.
Though if everyone else is fine with this way, I won't oppose.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 09-06-2015 17:22
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
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Bewley doing his rounds here.
Hope I can come here with Richeze one day, to Qatar |
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