stuartmcstuart wrote:
I don't think its fair to call Contador a doper until there is hard evidence. Plus, I feel the organisers have acted a little unfairly towards Astana in many ways. one, because it is not the same team organisation as last year, and two, all teams should have been given a fresh start after the breakaway from the PT.

I would be surprised if Astana maintain their sponsorship now, they've basically got the worst rep, not going to any races, and all the main Kazak riders have been suspended for doping

It has put the country on the map though, along with Borat, their other comedy export

matt493 wrote:
You can't just say someone doped because he wins.

Guido Mukk wrote:
Mazzoleni
Kessler
Vino
Kasechkin

isnt that more then enough to not invite that team..

rjc_43 wrote:
No, but they have imported half of discovery... lets look at how many ex discovery riders have gone on to appear/be found out to be dopers... hmm. get the point? Its just the air around certain teams doesn't make people like them, and what with last year, and what with discovery basically jumping into astanas ship it just doesnt look good. Yeah too bad Kloden, but other then that i don't think that the rest of the disco lads should be following master drug planner around the place. Surely someone else can provide their drugs?

ESPN: People might look at you and say, "You're smart, you're driven, you probably could have gone into another industry. Why do this?"

Jon Vaughters: Everyone on the planet knows about that little IM conversation I had with Frankie Andreu.

That was sort of like before I had this dream, and it was when I didn't know what to do with this passion I had. I was angry about what was going on, and there was
nothing to do about it other than bitch and moan to your buddy on the Internet. That was a very public example of how negative I was at that time. And now, I have
something entirely and totally positive that I can pour all that into. It's very cathartic for me. Now, with Taylor Phinney on our junior team, you can draw the line of
responsibility very directly. You have someone who will, almost certainly, be one of the best professional riders in the world in six years' time. So is it not your
responsibility to do everything you can? I know his mom and dad. I don't want to have to lie to his mom and dad seven years from now … but the sad story is that in
cycling 10 years ago, that is the way the story would have gone.

Cyclevaughters: frankie - hey - thanks for talking the other day

FDREU: no problem, where are you

Cyclevaughters: back in CO

FDREU: nice, I just got home, isnt' it like 5AM

Cyclevaughters: sometimes i think i'm going to go nuts

Cyclevaughters: yeah

Cyclevaughters: it's 5am

FDREU: I agree, I came home and the air conditioning is broken

Cyclevaughters: ouch

FDREU: did your kid grow twice it's size in the two weeks you were gone

Cyclevaughters: yeah, his feet look bigger for some eason

FDREU: funny

Cyclevaughters: anyhow, i never can quite figure out why i don't just play along with the lance crowd - i mean shit it would make my life easier, eh? it's not like i never played with hotsauce, eh?

FDREU: I know, but in the end i don't think it comes back to bite you

FDREU: I play along, my wife does not, and Lance hates us both

FDREU: it's a no win situation, you know how he is. Once you leave the team or do soemthing wrong you forever banned

Cyclevaughters: i suppose - you know he tried to hire me back in 2001... he was nice to me... i just couldn't deal with that whole world

FDREU: I did not know that

FDREU: look at why everyone leaves, it's way to controlling

Cyclevaughters: once I went to CA and saw that now all the teams got 25 injections every day

Cyclevaughters: hell, CA was ZERO

FDREU: you mean all the riders

Cyclevaughters: Credit Agricole

FDREU: it's crazy

Cyclevaughters: So, I realized lance was full of shit when he'd say everyone was doing it

FDREU: You may read stuff that i say to radio or press, praising the Tour and lance but it's just playing the game

Cyclevaughters: believe me, as carzy as it sounds - Moreau was on nothing. Hct of 39%

FDREU: when in 2000-2001

Cyclevaughters: so, that's when you start thinking... hell, kevin was telling me that after 2000 Ullrich never raced over 42%--- yeah moreau in 2000-2001

Cyclevaughters: anyhow - whtever

FDREU: After 1999, you know many things changed. lance did not

FDREU: I believe that's part of whey kevin left, he was tired of the stuff

Cyclevaughters: yeah, i could explain the whole way lance dupes everyone

FDREU: what abut GH climbing the mountains better than azevedo and the entire group

Cyclevaughters: from how floyd described it, i know exactly the methos

FDREU: explain that, classics to climber

FDREU: when did you talk with floyd

Cyclevaughters: i don't know - i want to trust George

Cyclevaughters: but the thing is on that team, you think it's normal

Cyclevaughters: or at least i did

FDREU: i guess. anything with blodd is not normal

Cyclevaughters: yeah, it's very complex how the avoid all the controls now, but it's not any new drug or anything, just the resources and planning to pull of a well devised plan

Cyclevaughters: it's why they all got dropped on stage 9 - no refill yet - then on the rest day - boom 800ml of packed cells

FDREU: they have it mastered. good point

Cyclevaughters: they draw the blood right after the dauphine

FDREU: how do they sneak it in, or keep it until needed

FDREU: i'm sure it's not with the truck in the frig

Cyclevaughters: motorcycle - refridgerated panniers

Cyclevaughters: on the rest day

Cyclevaughters: floyd has a photo of the thing

FDREU: crazy! it' just keep going to new levels

Cyclevaughters: yeah, it's complicated, but with enough money you can do it

FDREU: they have enough money. Floyd was so pissed at them this entire tour

Cyclevaughters: anyhow - i just feel sorry for floyd and some of the other guys

Cyclevaughters: why would lance keep doing the shit when he clearly has nothing to prove - it's weird

FDREU: I know. me to. they all get ripped into for no reason

FDREU: he's done now, thank god. but they will prove next year for Johan's sake that they are the greatest

Cyclevaughters: and then lance says " this guy and that guys are pussies"

FDREU: they won't stop

FDREU: I agree

Aquarius wrote:train harder, they've got a stronger mentality against crybabies like us

Macquet wrote:



And which of those riders is still on the team?? Just curious?

Crommy wrote:
Because you can't ban a team because you have a hunch they dope. Yes, they did last year, but they have a new management this year. It's just wrong. Yes, if they do have a doping case with evidence brought before the, by all means, ban them (and I'm hoping that Contador will soon get done), but you can't just decide to get rid of a team because you think they dope.