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Unleashed Database 2008 - Under Construction
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| dave92 |
Posted on 08-02-2008 21:40
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2946
Joined: 21-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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on the bright side, this time a year ago was a brilliant day for this site
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 08-02-2008 21:41
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
So Ruben leaves after a disagreement with myself and some rather unpleasant comments towards Guido. Coincidentally, today is one year that I registered here. Even more so, it's also one year today that Guido registered.
sad that this happened 
Yes thank for reminding me..strange that there was just 7 minutes between our registration..It's honor to have "birthday" at the same day with you. |
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| J-R |
Posted on 10-02-2008 11:23
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Junior Rider
Posts: 46
Joined: 09-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Ruben's point is, and he's absolutely right about that, that I (and he, of course, for the StanosBase) have researched all of these riders and based their stats on the results I've found and the cycling I've seen. People who are about to criticise these stats should do the same, because there's nothing wrong generally with the stats - and I'm not talking about these 1/2 points you'd like to see different. Like Ruben already said, for example, Boasson Hagen isn't a hilly rider: I've seen him at the U23 TT champs when Cornu won, and he wasn't looking good on those hills, in combination with his size and weight (the fact he looks more like Hushovd than like a Rebellin or Valverde). I make a Db to be used by everyone, so I base the stats on what the riders are capable of, not on someone's twisted reality.
Anyway, new screen added - not a shocking one or such, just to show you what I'm busy with at the moment. |
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| Valor |
Posted on 10-02-2008 11:47
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Domestique
Posts: 532
Joined: 24-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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I'd also like to see stats of Lövkvist, Ziegler, Davis, Rabon, Possoni, Pinotti and Siutsou. I'm sure they're valid members of high road.
And Isn't Boasson Hagen also a good cobbler? |
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| samtheman |
Posted on 10-02-2008 12:36
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Domestique
Posts: 610
Joined: 07-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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This Story with Ruben is quite sad...I mean, Ruben always argues over small differences. I remember him getting at me cause I dared to say Chris Sörensen deserves to be year neo of the year and not Gesink. He doesn't seem to get what Isso was trying to tell him about everyone being entited to an own opinion.
Anyway, the DB looks quite good to me, the stats are perfect imo(to avoid arguments)
Somehow funny that Ruben actually said the users here know nothing about international cycling...
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| Jaap90 |
Posted on 10-02-2008 15:23
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Stagiare
Posts: 212
Joined: 04-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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If I see the reactions to Ruben, I have to laugh very loud of the database that people will release here. That will be a nightmare. |
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| mrlol |
Posted on 10-02-2008 15:30
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5005
Joined: 24-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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please dont continue the argue... |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 10-02-2008 15:42
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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J-R wrote:
Ruben's point is, and he's absolutely right about that, that I (and he, of course, for the StanosBase) have researched all of these riders and based their stats on the results I've found and the cycling I've seen. People who are about to criticise these stats should do the same, because there's nothing wrong generally with the stats - and I'm not talking about these 1/2 points you'd like to see different. Like Ruben already said, for example, Boasson Hagen isn't a hilly rider: I've seen him at the U23 TT champs when Cornu won, and he wasn't looking good on those hills, in combination with his size and weight (the fact he looks more like Hushovd than like a Rebellin or Valverde). I make a Db to be used by everyone, so I base the stats on what the riders are capable of, not on someone's twisted reality.
Anyway, new screen added - not a shocking one or such, just to show you what I'm busy with at the moment.
You can't possible say that the stats of yours are "objective". Stats will always be subjective, even if you have researched the stats. I mean, it's not like a stage win tells exactly what a rider deserves and not deserves. There's a lot of variables you have to consider, and in the end it's those variables - which are subjective - which decides a rider's stats. No stats are subjective, and therefore we are more than allowed to critize stats if we don't agree with them. Our subjective point of views are just as valid as yours.
Some agree with the stats, others don't. Personally, I think they are fine, but in general, I don't care about them since I can always change them if I don't agree. That being said, I'm allowed to express my opinions - just as well as you are - without being hunted down by anyone. |
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| J-R |
Posted on 10-02-2008 18:18
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Junior Rider
Posts: 46
Joined: 09-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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The subjective part is what I meant with those 1/2 points.
Everyone has the right to have his opinion about them, but please don't call them hopeless because you are incapable of objectively looking at cyclists, just say "I don't like them" then. |
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 10-02-2008 19:11
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7694
Joined: 18-08-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Im incapable of looking objectively on stats because theyre subjective.
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 10-02-2008 23:19
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Yes stats was and will be..very "slip subject"..they all subective..if machine decides stats then it's against humanity.
I belive everyone has played with great stats..this is science (I am realy bad myself with that)..there is not enough to but climbers and sprinters to top list..there is many other rows wich affect rider's skills. +you need to always follow and predict AI logic.
All beauty of that is..it's impossible to make 100% pure stats..
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-12-2024 01:50
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| samtheman |
Posted on 11-02-2008 12:17
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Domestique
Posts: 610
Joined: 07-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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I think the Stats in the PPDB databases very good. Giving track riders low Stamina and pure climbers from South America high Mountain stats but low flat stats. It works very well, I always get realistic results
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| rodda |
Posted on 11-02-2008 12:38
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2276
Joined: 17-08-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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samtheman wrote:
I think the Stats in the PPDB databases very good. Giving track riders low Stamina and pure climbers from South America high Mountain stats but low flat stats. It works very well, I always get realistic results
yeah thats pretty much my opinion
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| issoisso |
Posted on 11-02-2008 13:39
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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samtheman wrote:
I think the Stats in the PPDB databases very good. Giving track riders low Stamina and pure climbers from South America high Mountain stats but low flat stats. It works very well, I always get realistic results
Yes it does work very well. What I personally don't like about the PPDB databases is that riders that have improved/decreased or in some cases, radically changed, still get the exact same stats they did in PPDB DBs 3 years ago unless they're riding for top teams.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Dankan |
Posted on 12-02-2008 09:43
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1065
Joined: 29-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
samtheman wrote:
I think the Stats in the PPDB databases very good. Giving track riders low Stamina and pure climbers from South America high Mountain stats but low flat stats. It works very well, I always get realistic results
Yes it does work very well. What I personally don't like about the PPDB databases is that riders that have improved/decreased or in some cases, radically changed, still get the exact same stats they did in PPDB DBs 3 years ago unless they're riding for top teams.
Main reason for that: it's impossible to focus on every single team, every single year. Their riders, I mean. The only way to do it is making a couple of general revisions each season: before and after summer, for instance. I'm suffering from that when I have to update the entire DB structure this year after building a 2600-cyclist one last year.
My two cents on stats: all of them are subjective, but experience shows you which ones are best-made. Ron (PlakkerNL) takes secondary values in a strong account, while others don't. That's what makes his DB's way more realistic. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 12-02-2008 09:49
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Dankan wrote:
Main reason for that: it's impossible to focus on every single team, every single year. Their riders, I mean. The only way to do it is making a couple of general revisions each season: before and after summer, for instance. I'm suffering from that when I have to update the entire DB structure this year after building a 2600-cyclist one last year.
sure, but I see a little too many examples for comfort.
Not that it bothers me much, mind. I always edit any DB whenever I see anything in the gameplay that bothers me 
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Takitdown |
Posted on 12-02-2008 10:04
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Stagiare
Posts: 234
Joined: 26-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
Dankan wrote:
Main reason for that: it's impossible to focus on every single team, every single year. Their riders, I mean. The only way to do it is making a couple of general revisions each season: before and after summer, for instance. I'm suffering from that when I have to update the entire DB structure this year after building a 2600-cyclist one last year.
sure, but I see a little too many examples for comfort.
Not that it bothers me much, mind. I always edit any DB whenever I see anything in the gameplay that bothers me
Just like me |
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