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Tour de France 2014...Nibali vs Froome (good article)
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| ruben |
Posted on 09-09-2013 20:44
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After today.. hmm. Nibali still has his regular weak day in a GT, he doesn't lose much here, but if it's against Froome/Quintana... hmmmhmhmhmh |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 10-09-2013 06:53
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Stromeon wrote:
deek12345 wrote:
HaRe wrote:
TDF 2014. Quintana vs Froome vs Nibali. aww.
vs contador it should be epic
No way Contador will be better next year than he was this year - can't see him making the podium if those three are there, no matter what the route is like.
This.
If Contador can challenge Froome or Quintana in the mountains, then it is clear he is doing that thnaks to some super doses. No way he can challenge them, he is done on his best level, he might be dragged again to top5 by Kreuziger, but nothing better.
Without Roman, he would be like 8th this year. And he can hardly get better.
Quintana is the only one who can come close, but still will loose some minutes thnaks to TT, bar some miracles like Froome getting busted.
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| Nin1388 |
Posted on 10-09-2013 08:36
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Stromeon wrote:
deek12345 wrote:
HaRe wrote:
TDF 2014. Quintana vs Froome vs Nibali. aww.
vs contador it should be epic
No way Contador will be better next year than he was this year - can't see him making the podium if those three are there, no matter what the route is like.
This.
If Contador can challenge Froome or Quintana in the mountains, then it is clear he is doing that thnaks to some super doses. No way he can challenge them, he is done on his best level, he might be dragged again to top5 by Kreuziger, but nothing better.
Without Roman, he would be like 8th this year. And he can hardly get better.
Quintana is the only one who can come close, but still will loose some minutes thnaks to TT, bar some miracles like Froome getting busted.
You never know, all depends on how preparation goes. And next year Contador has said he will start season late to avoid fatigue. Let's see what happens, but you cannot rule him out. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 10-09-2013 08:53
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They always say that. It's always 'I know what went wrong', or 'I was too tired', or whatever other excuse.
But they never say the truth: They're past it and will never go back to their previous level. No one ever says it. They ALWAYS come up with excuses about how their preparation was less than ideal.
Supposedly this is the same Contador who was on the beach just before winning the Giro...yeah, right. As for fatigue, that was his excuse already for not winning races in the first half of 2013: 'I'm saving myself for later'.
Excuses, excuses, excuses. They all use them and they never come back. How many times have we heard Antón or Basso or Evans come up with those excuses? They never 'came back', they're just past it. End of story.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 10-09-2013 09:03
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issoisso wrote:
They always say that. It's always 'I know what went wrong', or 'I was too tired', or whatever other excuse.
But they never say the truth: They're past it and will never go back to their previous level. No one ever says it. They ALWAYS come up with excuses about how their preparation was less than ideal.
Supposedly this is the same Contador who was on the beach just before winning the Giro...yeah, right. As for fatigue, that was his excuse already for not winning races in the first half of 2013: 'I'm saving myself for later'.
Excuses, excuses, excuses. They all use them and they never come back. How many times have we heard Antón or Basso or Evans come up with those excuses? They never 'came back', they're just past it. End of story.
This plus if we really want a clean(er) sport why would we cheer/hope/expect that a caught doper returns to his strength from when we know he wasn't clean?
Name me one top rider, who has come back equally strong after a quarantine without getting caught again...
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 10-09-2013 09:30
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Strydz wrote:
Blueprint wrote:
I wouldn't write off Contador just yet.
Contador is done as a Tour contender, he should be looking at the other GT's but I doubt his ego will let him do that
Many people were thinking the same way about Cadel Evans before he won the Tour de France. Or Tom Boonen before his spring campaign of 2012. People seem to be very eager to write off riders after one or two weaker seasons, but when everything falls into place, they can still be a force to reckon with. |
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 10-09-2013 09:34
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Atlantius wrote:
Name me one top rider, who has come back equally strong after a quarantine without getting caught again...
Alejandro Valverde, Michele Scarponi, Björn Leukemans. |
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| Nin1388 |
Posted on 10-09-2013 09:50
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Blueprint wrote:
Atlantius wrote:
Name me one top rider, who has come back equally strong after a quarantine without getting caught again...
Alejandro Valverde, Michele Scarponi, Björn Leukemans.
Contador himself won 2012 Vuelta. |
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 10-09-2013 09:52
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Blueprint wrote:
Atlantius wrote:
Name me one top rider, who has come back equally strong after a quarantine without getting caught again...
Alejandro Valverde, Michele Scarponi, Björn Leukemans.
Valverde is far from the level he had back in the days, where he was a dominant rider throughout the entire season. He has shown a bit of it this season and I find that very disturbing to be honest...
Scarponi: True. Except that he didn't really become a top rider until after his quarentine. So doping held him down or?
In the same way I don't think Leukemans was a top rider before he joined Vacansoleil after his quarentine.
So Valverde is beginning to look like his old self in the world of organized doping back in the dark ages (just look at his improvement when joining Kelme of all teams). The two others didn't really do much until they "stopped" doping.
I'll give you they haven't been busted (yet), but do you really think they're clean with those developments?
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 10-09-2013 09:54
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Nin1388 wrote:
Blueprint wrote:
Atlantius wrote:
Name me one top rider, who has come back equally strong after a quarantine without getting caught again...
Alejandro Valverde, Michele Scarponi, Björn Leukemans.
Contador himself won 2012 Vuelta.
While losing on the mountains. The Contador that won the Vuelta was far from the Contador that dominated the Tour before that. That Contador wouldn't have had to attack on the flat...
Edit: Still no answer as to why you actually want the dopers to be as strong as when they were proven dirty?
Edited by Atlantius on 10-09-2013 09:55
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 10-09-2013 09:59
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I'm just answering the question, I don't claim to know who's doping and who's not. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 10-09-2013 10:01
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This discussion is getting ridicolous, we will never see old Contador of course. He was younger and most likely doped between 2009-2011, how on earth he could be back on that level?
And he would need that level to challenge Froome and Quintana in the mountains. Now he has problems to even lead his team, his luxury domestique was maybe even stronger than him.
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 10-09-2013 10:03
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Blueprint wrote:
I'm just answering the question, I don't claim to know who's doping and who's not.
I know. And I'm just saying that Valverde isn't as strong as he used to be while the two others weren't really that good until after they were busted and thus doesn't qualify as a top rider coming back on same level, but rather mediocre riders suddenly blooming after a doping suspension
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 10-09-2013 10:05
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
This discussion is getting ridicolous, we will never see old Contador of course. He was younger and most likely doped between 2009-2011, how on earth he could be back on that level?
And he would need that level to challenge Froome and Quintana in the mountains. Now he has problems to even lead his team, his luxury domestique was maybe even stronger than him.
Agrred. And I think that's a good thing. I don't want to see him riding on a level we know he had to dope to reach - when he was in his best years as a cyclist...
And I can't understand why anyone would want/expect that
Edited by Atlantius on 10-09-2013 10:05
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 10-09-2013 10:11
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I can understand that, because doped Contador was extremely interesting thing to watch on the slopes, thnaks to his style and attacking mentality.
But for the sake of the sport, he will not be hopefully so interesting again.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 10-09-2013 10:11
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| kubys |
Posted on 10-09-2013 10:53
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Blueprint wrote:
Strydz wrote:
Blueprint wrote:
I wouldn't write off Contador just yet.
Contador is done as a Tour contender, he should be looking at the other GT's but I doubt his ego will let him do that
Many people were thinking the same way about Cadel Evans before he won the Tour de France. Or Tom Boonen before his spring campaign of 2012. People seem to be very eager to write off riders after one or two weaker seasons, but when everything falls into place, they can still be a force to reckon with.
I wouldn't rule Boonen out. Sure, the 2012 season (not only spring) was unbeliveably great, but this year his season was massively blown by injuries. I'm not trying to say, he'll be on same level like 2012, but who thought he'll get this high after 2011 season? I really didn't think he would be able to reach his own level from 2005/2006, but suddenly he was imo better.
Die hard fan of Tom Boonen and Quickstep since 2004.
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 10-09-2013 11:01
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Atlantius wrote:
Blueprint wrote:
I'm just answering the question, I don't claim to know who's doping and who's not.
I know. And I'm just saying that Valverde isn't as strong as he used to be while the two others weren't really that good until after they were busted and thus doesn't qualify as a top rider coming back on same level, but rather mediocre riders suddenly blooming after a doping suspension
I think you're wrong about Valverde. He came back with 2000 CQ points, while being sick shortly before the major classics and crashing badly in the Tour. This year, he was riding his strongest Tour ever, but got his portion of bad luck in the stage to Saint-Amand-Montrond. And once again, he's on his way to 2000+ CQ points... |
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 10-09-2013 11:15
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If you check the old ranking compared to this years ranking you can see that the general pts level back ten was much lower than today, so 2000 pts in 2012/13 is not not as impressive as 2000 pts in 2009. IMO he still has a bit to the times when he was winning races like Liege-Bastogne-Liege, Dauphine and the Vuelta doing well in pretty much all terrains.
Before his quarentine it would be fair to call him the worlds best cyclist. He is not on that level now IMO.
Edit: Old rankings: https://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/...gRider.asp
Edited by Atlantius on 10-09-2013 11:15
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| kumazan |
Posted on 10-09-2013 12:09
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Valverde is 33 now. Of course he isn't on his peak level anymore.
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 10-09-2013 12:11
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kumazan wrote:
Valverde is 33 now. Of course he isn't on his peak level anymore.
Not sure if Chris Horner would agree... |
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