|
News In February
|
| usto |
Posted on 07-02-2013 13:31
|
Stagiare
Posts: 212
Joined: 23-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ian Butler wrote:
Any more news on Rodriguez? Will he stay or leave, different sources say different things atm.
He is waiting for the TAS sentence, and if Kathusa isn't WorldTour he will leave.
He has said that if in the end he goes he will do to least expected the team
Edited by usto on 07-02-2013 16:24
|
| |
|
|
| Ian Butler |
Posted on 07-02-2013 13:39
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21379
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
But isn't it already too late for Katusha to be World Tour? And when is it decided? I reckon the longer he waits, the harder it'll be to go to a new team (also in terms of fitting in) |
| |
|
|
| Daggen |
Posted on 07-02-2013 13:41
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1662
Joined: 08-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
It's too late for Katusha. I think it would be the best for Rodriguez to find a new team as quickly as possible |
| |
|
|
| usto |
Posted on 07-02-2013 14:17
|
Stagiare
Posts: 212
Joined: 23-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
In an interview he says that some teams are waiting for him, he can't change of team until TAS decission and it was expected to final January
Edited by usto on 07-02-2013 14:18
|
| |
|
|
| usto |
Posted on 07-02-2013 16:24
|
Stagiare
Posts: 212
Joined: 23-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Team Andalucia - Caja Granada Dissapears |
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 07-02-2013 18:19
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4851
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ian Butler wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
No just because he seems like such a good guy. I will only believe it if it comes out of his mouth (or his blood  )
I believe him over Hamilton, that's for sure.
Nice guys don't dope.
Well-known story...
Well excuse me for still believing in some people. It seems like all that we do here on this site is point fingers. Sure, doping is a plague in cycling and sports, but I'd rather concentrate on the beauty of the sport and believe guys like Cancellara, who've been great all through their career, until there's some real evidence, or of course if they say it their selves.
No, but, seriously, Cancellara ?
The man has ridden for Lefevere, Riis, Bruyneel. A couple of years ago the rumour that his positive test would be announced any time soon came back two or three times during the year. That plus his fluctuating performances, sorry, but... There's no worst blind than the one who doesn't want to see, as the saying says. |
| |
|
|
| Ian Butler |
Posted on 07-02-2013 21:12
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21379
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
Don't know if it exists in English but in Dutch we have: let's see first, says the blind man.
If evidence, real evidence, arises, I won't be blind for it. But this is a lot of circumstantial evidence and I just can't see him doing it. I mean, he's such a great guy. If he would do it, it'd be worse than Armstrong. (to me) |
| |
|
|
| Crommy |
Posted on 07-02-2013 21:16
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8755
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ian Butler wrote:
Don't know if it exists in English but in Dutch we have: let's see first, says the blind man.
If evidence, real evidence, arises, I won't be blind for it. But this is a lot of circumstantial evidence and I just can't see him doing it. I mean, he's such a great guy. If he would do it, it'd be worse than Armstrong. (to me)
How many years did we have to wait for the "real evidence" about Armstrong to arrive?
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 18-12-2025 15:09
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 07-02-2013 21:17
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4851
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
My points still stands. There are many great guys who dope, and bad guys who don't, as well as the other way round. Being great has nothing to do with doping or not.
That a rider is your hero doesn't change a thing about him being a cheater or not, either. They're just guys like you and me, paid to push on pedals, and with a (much) better natural ability to do so. They shouldn't be anyone heroes or anything magic or of that kind. |
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 07-02-2013 21:21
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4851
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Crommy wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Don't know if it exists in English but in Dutch we have: let's see first, says the blind man.
If evidence, real evidence, arises, I won't be blind for it. But this is a lot of circumstantial evidence and I just can't see him doing it. I mean, he's such a great guy. If he would do it, it'd be worse than Armstrong. (to me)
How many years did we have to wait for the "real evidence" about Armstrong to arrive?
There's none, look at facts again :
- he had a certificate for those corticoids they tried to convict him for
- there's no evidence of that supposedly suspicious EPO test in Switzerland 2000
- the French had no right to do retroactive testing on his 1999 samples. And anyway Vrijman ruled that it's no positive tests
- All those who testified against Armstrong had an agenda, money to make, or trying to get into the spotlight. Face it, they never had enough talent.
- His admission ? Everyone agreed that he lied to some extent.
I still believe in Lance, a guy who did that much against cancer is a great guy. He'd never cheat. Screw all those jealous people. |
| |
|
|
| Ian Butler |
Posted on 07-02-2013 21:25
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21379
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
You get me all wrong, mate.
I'm not some dumb schmuck looking the other way. I'm idealistic, at the most, but not blind.
I just choose to believe Cancellara, because so far it's only circumstantial evidence. In a court-room, I wouldn't convict the guy for having worked with those guys, I'd need positive tests or a confession or something more... real.
Anyway, I just wanted to give my opinion, don't shoot me down. If he turns out to be a cheater, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong, but until he does, I strongly believe in a rider's innocence. I mean, you have to, where else is this sport going to, you know? I don't want to be that guy pointing fingers while watching a race.
Again, I'm not trying to start up a discussion in any way. I understand your knowledge about doping, cycling and the people involved, and I must bow my head for that. Just wanted to give you my two cents worth.
EDIT: and you don't have to mock me in that previous post that I still believe Cancellara. Not necessary. This isn't personal in any way.
Edited by Ian Butler on 07-02-2013 21:29
|
| |
|
|
| fcancellara |
Posted on 07-02-2013 21:29
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4813
Joined: 18-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
Aquarius, if Cancellara worked with so many suspicious people, and therefore obviously doped, it should be quite easy to find a positive test, right?
|
| |
|
|
| Crommy |
Posted on 07-02-2013 21:30
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8755
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
fcancellara wrote:
Aquarius, if Cancellara worked with so many suspicious people, and therefore obviously doped, it should be quite easy to find a positive test, right?
Have you read any of the evidence from the Armstrong case?
|
| |
|
|
| fcancellara |
Posted on 07-02-2013 21:37
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4813
Joined: 18-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
Well yes, but even if Cancellara doped I don't think it would be as structured and organized as Armstrong's doping network.
|
| |
|
|
| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 07-02-2013 21:38
|
Team Manager
Posts: 31706
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
fcancellara wrote:
Aquarius, if Cancellara worked with so many suspicious people, and therefore obviously doped, it should be quite easy to find a positive test, right?
To paraphrase Lance Armstrong: "I never failed a test" and "I doped."
Surely no intelligent cycling fan can really still believe that never failing a test actually means anything?
|
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 07-02-2013 21:41
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4851
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ian Butler wrote:
You get me all wrong, mate.
I'm not some dumb schmuck looking the other way. I'm idealistic, at the most, but not blind.
I just choose to believe Cancellara, because so far it's only circumstantial evidence. In a court-room, I wouldn't convict the guy for having worked with those guys, I'd need positive tests or a confession or something more... real.
Anyway, I just wanted to give my opinion, don't shoot me down. If he turns out to be a cheater, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong, but until he does, I strongly believe in a rider's innocence. I mean, you have to, where else is this sport going to, you know? I don't want to be that guy pointing fingers while watching a race.
Again, I'm not trying to start up a discussion in any way. I understand your knowledge about doping, cycling and the people involved, and I must bow my head for that. Just wanted to give you my two cents worth.
EDIT: and you don't have to mock me in that previous post that I still believe Cancellara. Not necessary. This isn't personal in any way.
Nothing personal here either. 
I just mean, history has taught us that those working with suspicious guys end up being caught or involved sooner or later, and those who are or look like "the strongest ever" are rarely (never) clean.
Cancellara is among those ones.
If I were to trust somebody I'd pick 200 riders before Cancellara.
And having heroes, as stated previously, is both wrong, and going to hurt if it's the wrong guys who're chosen as heroes.
Edited by Aquarius on 07-02-2013 21:41
|
| |
|
|
| Ian Butler |
Posted on 07-02-2013 21:44
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21379
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
Well, you might be right, but I sure hope you're wrong
You're right about heroes, though. I don't consider Cancellara my hero (don't have any real "heroes", it's also dangerous to have heroes for social and political reasons), but I do think he's one of the most friendly guys in the peleton and a great example for young riders. If he will go down, the cycling world will have to survive another big shock... |
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 08-02-2013 06:52
|
World Champion
Posts: 13662
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
Ian Butler wrote:
Well, you might be right, but I sure hope you're wrong
You're right about heroes, though. I don't consider Cancellara my hero (don't have any real "heroes", it's also dangerous to have heroes for social and political reasons), but I do think he's one of the most friendly guys in the peleton and a great example for young riders. If he will go down, the cycling world will have to survive another big shock...
But this could be shock only for some Ian, because when you think about cycling and follow cycling for at least a decade and can make two from one+one, not much can shock and surprise you. All the past great champions of cycling were dopers (maybe except LeMond and few others), so would it be really so shocking? And as Aquarius points out, personality has nothing to do with doping. We have arrogant prick dopers and nice guys dopers.
I like one sentence from classical czech comedy movie, when one man said to some lady when being asked how he can believe in god without clear evidence : " I have not seen your pussy either, but i believe you have one".
But i understand your attitude and there is nothing wrong and laughable about that.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 08-02-2013 06:53
|
| |
|
|
| Ollfardh |
Posted on 08-02-2013 08:05
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15042
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 11500.00
|
I don't think Cancellara doped either, cause is pretty consistent. Armstrong and co just peeked at the Tour, being meh the rest of the year. But Cancellara did insane things throughout the season, from San Remo, cobbles, TdF to WC TT. Either he's been doping all year long, either he's just a real talent that's been unlucky to have some managers linked to doping.
I'm not putting my hand in the fire for anyone nowadays, but I think Hamilton was just pissed about Cancellara's interview back then and wanted revenge.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
|
| |
|
|
| CountArach |
Posted on 08-02-2013 08:10
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8205
Joined: 14-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ollfardh wrote:
I don't think Cancellara doped either, cause is pretty consistent. Armstrong and co just peeked at the Tour, being meh the rest of the year. But Cancellara did insane things throughout the season, from San Remo, cobbles, TdF to WC TT. Either he's been doping all year long, either he's just a real talent that's been unlucky to have some managers linked to doping.
I'm not putting my hand in the fire for anyone nowadays, but I think Hamilton was just pissed about Cancellara's interview back then and wanted revenge.
But they doped the entire year regardless and if they had wanted to they could have won more races. The issue wasn't that they only doped for the TDF it was that Bruyneel had organised their entire calendar around the TDF and they ignored a lot of other races that they could have performed well in if they had wanted to.
See also: Andy Schleck.
|
| |
|
