How do you keep your riders at the front then without spending so much energy?
Basically, just pot the dot around 35-50 for your worst riders (cobblestats around 71-75) and your leader around 20-30. (If the speed of the peloton is low).
Set the riders on as low a dot as possible while not losing much, if any position. As a benchmark, good cobble riders in good fitness should be able to do dot 20 or less across the cobbles for most of the race (higher later in race, as needed). Decent cobble riders (low to mid 70s) dot 25-35, depending. Start low, and if you see them falling back too much, up them a few points. This will preserve their yellow and red bars until later in the race when they are needed.
Ok guys, I know it has been a while since I last posted in this topic, but since then I played more cobbled classics from the Classic menu, especially Paris-Roubaix.I play with RadioShack and yesterday I think I had my best results.I played 3 times and I managed:
-1st race: 4th, after Boonen, Ballan and Flecha.We were all 4 at the sprint on the velodrome but I finished last.
-2nd: race: 4th, after Boonen, Ballan and Flecha.Here I got my tactics wrong, I positioned myself very badly on a cobble section and Boonen, Ballan and Flecha all attacked, + Nuyens with a larger group who were behind Boonen's group.Then I started to raise my efort and I managed to get in Boonen's group with about 7 km to go but it was nothing that I could have done in a sprint, because I was empty.
-3rd race: 2nd, after Boonen and in front of Ballan and Flecha.Here I don't think I played very good, even if it's my best result.What happened is that I was on dot 40 on a cobble section with about 80 km's to go and I started to create a gap of about 20 seconds.When I saw that I started pushing and I even had 1,20 min. but Boonen caught me and I was too empty to have a chance in the sprint.
I think I started to understand the technique but here are my two questions.
1.How can I organize a chase if the favorites attack ? Relay or Dot ? And how high the effort should be?
2.How the hell can you beat Boonen in the sprint ? I have the 2013 PCM DB and he has like 77 SP if I remember correctly and Cancellara below 70.It's impossible to beat him if it's 1 vs 1 on the Velodrome.So, how can I get away from him before that ? How can I attack on a cobble section to create a gap ?
Thanks !
Edited by RedDisciple on 04-04-2013 08:36
Beating Boonen in a sprint with Cancellara is virtually impossible. What you could try is saving as much of your energy as you can and not getting out of Boonen's wheel in the last 10 km or so. Then he may be worn out for the sprint or you can try an attack at a little bit more than 3 km from the finish line. Of course, this also has the risk of others coming back, so it depends on the race situation.
I think you can better use relay for the chase.
And to get away on the last cobbles section, start the cobbles in the absolute front, and go dot 50-55 on the cobbles.
It doesn't always work, but most of the time it does...
With Cancellara, you have to ride them off your wheel.
I've just done a classic race with Radioshack, Tour of Flanders. All fitness equal. An early break got away the pace was just kept slow by myself. Pretty much 35 relay for the first half of the race. I had my worst cobbler protecting Sparty, with him on around 15-25 dot most the time (early with the breaks had to be higher so he didnt fall out the back). Rast went on a dot too, keeping just behind the lead train with Cancellara, My other not do good cobblers guy did most the early work. All the other 5 guys have the same cobbles rating which is actually kind of useful.
At about half way, i began putting my relay guys on 70 on the flat, and back down to 35 on Cobbles. Cancellara and rast go up a little on dot to keep them at the front, but usually 35-45 is fine for that. the break starts coming in fast. There wont be many if any attacks due to your high pace setting.
With about 70k to go, i had a big split happen due to the constant pace. lead group of about 25 (with the favourites all still present.) I go down to 5 guys, but thats about as many as anyone else. Still keep the pace at the same rate. Cancellara will still have practically full green bar and full yellow.
The break was caught at 50k, Rast now protects Cancellara who comes to the front to set the pace himself. Keep to about 60 on flat and 30 on cobbles for now. Eventually the favourites will attack, for me this happened very quickly, almost as soon as the break went. Gilbert and Fletcha went first, towards the end of the cobbles. I could see Tommke moving fast behind so i waited for a moment, and he came past as we got to the flat, at which point i followed. We were a group of four, they all started looking and so I just take up the pace. At this point, your job is simple.
You just maintain 80 on flat and 40 on cobbles until your out front with a gap. Then you just maintain it, never going beyond those figures. The other guys will try and attack, thats good. It means they are going beyond themselves. If its on the flat, follow because its not a risk. If its on cobbles, its fine, let them go because they will blow up. Just remember to keep pushing the dot up and down on the relevant sections. If you on a sharp decent you can go to 85 too, and this is very good for dropping the rest of the favourites.
Once you get 5-8 seconds, your gone. They will not be able to catch you.
Thats for Cancellara though. The others are pretty similar cept you have to wait later to go on your own. And with Tommy you dont even really have to break the breakaway since you win the sprint.
Wow, I just found the forum search recently and this thread helped me a lot!! Thanks
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Flair wrote:
With Cancellara, you have to ride them off your wheel.
I've just done a classic race with Radioshack, Tour of Flanders. All fitness equal. An early break got away the pace was just kept slow by myself. Pretty much 35 relay for the first half of the race. I had my worst cobbler protecting Sparty, with him on around 15-25 dot most the time (early with the breaks had to be higher so he didnt fall out the back). Rast went on a dot too, keeping just behind the lead train with Cancellara, My other not do good cobblers guy did most the early work. All the other 5 guys have the same cobbles rating which is actually kind of useful.
At about half way, i began putting my relay guys on 70 on the flat, and back down to 35 on Cobbles. Cancellara and rast go up a little on dot to keep them at the front, but usually 35-45 is fine for that. the break starts coming in fast. There wont be many if any attacks due to your high pace setting.
With about 70k to go, i had a big split happen due to the constant pace. lead group of about 25 (with the favourites all still present.) I go down to 5 guys, but thats about as many as anyone else. Still keep the pace at the same rate. Cancellara will still have practically full green bar and full yellow.
The break was caught at 50k, Rast now protects Cancellara who comes to the front to set the pace himself. Keep to about 60 on flat and 30 on cobbles for now. Eventually the favourites will attack, for me this happened very quickly, almost as soon as the break went. Gilbert and Fletcha went first, towards the end of the cobbles. I could see Tommke moving fast behind so i waited for a moment, and he came past as we got to the flat, at which point i followed. We were a group of four, they all started looking and so I just take up the pace. At this point, your job is simple.
You just maintain 80 on flat and 40 on cobbles until your out front with a gap. Then you just maintain it, never going beyond those figures. The other guys will try and attack, thats good. It means they are going beyond themselves. If its on the flat, follow because its not a risk. If its on cobbles, its fine, let them go because they will blow up. Just remember to keep pushing the dot up and down on the relevant sections. If you on a sharp decent you can go to 85 too, and this is very good for dropping the rest of the favourites.
Once you get 5-8 seconds, your gone. They will not be able to catch you.
Thats for Cancellara though. The others are pretty similar cept you have to wait later to go on your own. And with Tommy you dont even really have to break the breakaway since you win the sprint.
This doesn't work at all. I've put my riders to relay on a cobble section as you said, and they burned out right away, from the first cobble section, and Cancellara was on his own from there, with 160 km to go.
I continued to play and I managed to stay in the front but I never managed to get Boonen out of my wheel and he won the sprint.So sorry but this doesn't work, or not for me at least.
Edited by RedDisciple on 05-04-2013 18:48
Then your relaying too high or picking the wrong team.
Oh, or I guess its possible someone else is setting a really, really heavy pace infront of you and warping your relay figures. If thats happening, just switch from 35 relay to 35 dot.
If you set your guys to 35 relay, but another team set a guy at 60, that can screw up the relay pace and burn out your guys like you are saying. Also, dont put evreyone up top. Through the early parts of the race you really only need one or two riders contributing to the relay. In the race I mentioned, Jungle's was setting the pace for the first third of the race.
And yeah, if its just you and Tommy, then getting him off your wheel may be difficult as he probably wont attack in that situation. I'd probably suggest in that situation that you slow down to lower then normal on a climb, and try catching him unwares with a massive ramp up in pace on the downhill. Thats how got my original gap of 8, off the decent of the Petersberg.
Dont forget form comes into too, not just fitness. Cancellara was on a +4 when he made his move in that race, so anyone else only could have had +1 form on him. If you've got Cancellara only popping 0 or less, and Tommy has got good form (which you won't know) then there's pretty much no chance of riding him off your wheel. That is the way cycling goes.
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