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News in September
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| felix_29 |
Posted on 05-09-2012 22:02
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Classics Specialist
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Bunch of crap by Vaughters:
https://www.cyclin...-at-garmin
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-09-2012 22:20
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Tour de France Champion
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It actually makes perfect sense to me. It's good he's saying this, as right or wrong it's clearly his actual opinion with no bullshit.
That aside, I had to laugh at his assessment of Dekker
Thomas is an arrogant prick. Or was. hugely insecure guy. It's been a lot of work with him. A lot....
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Alesle |
Posted on 05-09-2012 22:27
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Stagiare
Posts: 188
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issoisso wrote:
It actually makes perfect sense to me. It's good he's saying this, as right or wrong it's clearly his actual opinion with no bullshit.
That aside, I had to laugh at his assessment of Dekker
Thomas is an arrogant prick. Or was. hugely insecure guy. It's been a lot of work with him. A lot....
To be fair, the first part of the Dekker assessent was the words of another CN forum user, but JV confirmed his statement.
I have to say, it's quite unusal to see forum posts just be cut and edited into a news article. It removes some of the context. |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 05-09-2012 22:33
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Grand Tour Champion
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Of course, but all news articles are edited and out of context, so it is a general problem not a specific. You just noticed it because you have seen the source of the information. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-09-2012 22:35
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 19134
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For those who want to see the original forum posts
https://forum.cycl...id=2200454
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Alesle |
Posted on 05-09-2012 22:38
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Stagiare
Posts: 188
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Lachi wrote:
Of course, but all news articles are edited and out of context, so it is a general problem not a specific. You just noticed it because you have seen the source of the information.
I guess that's true, but I still think it's a bit unusual to basically just cut everything from an internet forum.
Edited by Alesle on 05-09-2012 22:39
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| kumazan |
Posted on 05-09-2012 22:43
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Team Leader
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It is, but that's because it's extremely unusual to have a public personality like Vaughters opnely posting and answering questions in a public forum. That's something I really appreciate about him.
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 05-09-2012 22:46
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World Champion
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I honestly cant hate Vaughters. I do like his honesty, as long as thats what it is. He's not afraid to go against the grain and say things that while may upset people, are the truth or close to it.
I'm interested in hearing if Hesjedal being a former USP rider was also doped in the past. Hopefuly not though.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 07-12-2025 00:49
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| Coop |
Posted on 05-09-2012 22:56
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Under 23
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I can only imagine the quick calls he made to DZ, Tommy D, and VDV. Dudes, I just sold you guys and your past out on the CN forums. Sorry, sat down with a bottle of 1946 Corton Hospice de Beaune Patriarche Pere et Fils Bourgogne and got a little carried away. Anyways, CN is going to try and spin it into an article for us, you guys up for some fishing later?
Edited by Coop on 05-09-2012 22:57
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 05-09-2012 22:57
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
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Not working for me  |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 05-09-2012 23:02
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Team Leader
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It starts here:
https://forum.cycl...amp;page=5
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| Alesle |
Posted on 05-09-2012 23:06
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Stagiare
Posts: 188
Joined: 30-11-2006
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Coop wrote:
I can only imagine the quick calls he made to DZ, Tommy D, and VDV. Dudes, I just sold you guys and your past out on the CN forums. Sorry, sat down with a bottle of 1946 Corton Hospice de Beaune Patriarche Pere et Fils Bourgogne and got a little carried away. Anyways, CN is going to try and spin it into an article for us, you guys up for some fishing later?
On the forums he pointed out it would come out eventually anyway, due to the USADA investigation. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-09-2012 23:30
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 19134
Joined: 08-02-2007
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Alesle wrote:
To be fair, the first part of the Dekker assessent was the words of another CN forum user, but JV confirmed his statement.
All of what I quoted was specifically written by JV. It was not quoted by him.
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Not working for me
Here's some choice posts I find more interesting:
About Thomas Dekker:
I think his 2006 victory in Tirreno is a good example of the maximum TD can do when very fit and racing clean. His 2007 Tour climbing, his victory in Romandie, and his 2008 Classics campaign are unrealistic, and won't be repeated.
Look at his 2009....I think he can do a bit better than 2009, but not as well as 2007. That's his level, if he decides to put in the work. it won't be as easy this time and it won't come quickly.
If he can win a race like Tirreno again in 2013 or 2014, I will be very pleased.
I need to make him believe in himself, work hard, and reach as far as he can, but not push the massive pressure down on him that he had before, or else we'll just end up in the same place. its tricky.
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On the evolution of doping:
If you look at just the numbers, nothing more, you see a big improvement after festina, then creeping back, then another big improvement after EPO test, then creeping back, then another improvement after puerto, then creeping back, but then from 2008 onward, the numbers have looked better and better. The creep back hasn't hit and the improvement is all thru the peloton, not just the back half (which is why post 2008 improvement differs from the rest). We shall see if it holds. I hope so. I'm hoping for a mid eighties type cycling: people might be doping, but the **** they are using isn't actually making them go faster. That allows doping to be a decision that sane folks with a conscience won't make, as opposed to an obligatory fact, as it was during certain times of my career.
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On Navardauskas:
A little story for you: A kid 2 yrs ago won just about every race you could win in the French u23 ranks. In fact, he won so much, no French pro team was offering him a contract because if you win THAT much you must be doped.
I decided to surpass him out of nowhere, right after he won a big race, with a plane ticket to come down to Girona to be tested. Blood values were anemic, if anything, and hormonal profiles were very normal. Power test was better than 90% of the pro guys on the team at that time. The guy wasn't doped at all, he was just friggin strong, and he just about got left behind, because he "won too much" on the French scene.
his name: Ramunas Navardauskas
That is the Conti level world these days.
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On using measurements of performance as indication of doping:
Luis Herrera used to break 1600VAM quite frequently in mid-80's Giros. I actually use this as a yardstick a bit. There was no oxygen vector doping at the time, and Herrera was the most talented climber out there. Now, he lacked certain things we use in modern cycling, such as lighter equipment, better gearing (guys used to do these climbs at 60-70 rpms! not efficient!) and so on, so the modern rider does have some advantages. However, until bikes are allowed to be 4kgs, I think 1600-1700 VAM is a good speed to see races being won at (assuming no strong tailwind, i.e. Verbier 2009 etc)...AND... That is what we are consistently getting.
Speeds on the flats, in TT's, and overall averages are useless info. Aerodynamics are much improved over the middle of the EPO era, and considering at 53kph, an aerodynamic gain will get you just as much as a 30 watt blood doping gain, I would say av TT speed should still be on the increase.
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On Wiggins defending Armstrong:
Yes, that was a statement not in touch with reality, at all. Agreed.
While I admire Brad as an athlete, I can tell you he was a nightmare to work with and certainly did not listen to much advice I gave him...beyond "wow, brad, most of your power produced in a 4 minute pursuit is via aerobic metabolism...that's unique...You could be a stage racer"
And that's where Brad and I stopped.
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On his team's leaders:
We have a good core group of guys, but no true leader... Talansky for stage races, Dan Martin for hill one day races. That's the direction the boat is heading. Those two will be true leaders. Of course, Hesjedal too, but he's already proven it.
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On Contador:
I never got to see his blood values, so I have no idea. The negotiation with him was not quite as far as was rumored, and it had not gotten to the point of reviewing blood records. So, I don't know.
I know Inigo San Millan always told me that Contador was the most gifted cyclist ever tested, so I had reason to believe that he could do what he was doing, clean. There are, obviously, many reasons he might not have been clean. In the end: I don't know. I never got to see "behind the curtain"...
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Edited by issoisso on 05-09-2012 23:30
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Alesle |
Posted on 05-09-2012 23:43
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Stagiare
Posts: 188
Joined: 30-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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issoisso wrote:
Alesle wrote:
To be fair, the first part of the Dekker assessent was the words of another CN forum user, but JV confirmed his statement.
All of what I quoted was specifically written by JV. It was not quoted by him.
I know, my point was that it was in response to another poster, and that JV might not have used exactly those words if the first poster didn't bring them up.
From CN forum:
Fearless Greg Lemond:
And to be clear, when an arrogant little pr@ck like T. Dekker does fit in your team, Jorg J must really be an a@@hole!
JV1973:
Yes, Thomas is an arrogant prick. Or was. hugely insecure guy. It's been a lot of work with him. A lot.... |
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 06-09-2012 07:28
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 9885
Joined: 01-05-2010
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Most of that is very, very interesting. Had no idea what a talent Navardauskas is / was.
valverde321 wrote:
I honestly cant hate Vaughters. I do like his honesty, as long as thats what it is. He's not afraid to go against the grain and say things that while may upset people, are the truth or close to it.
Exactly my opinion too. It's always great to read his thoughts.
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| johannes-w |
Posted on 06-09-2012 08:20
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Domestique
Posts: 722
Joined: 24-04-2009
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 Very interesting indeed!!! - My favorite was the part about Wiggins   |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 06-09-2012 11:15
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4851
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Most likely, thin as he was (and is now), he probably got his "advices" somewhere else.  |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 06-09-2012 16:22
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 19134
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
Most of that is very, very interesting. Had no idea what a talent Navardauskas is / was.
You haven't seen anything yet. He has the potential to be a superstar.
Will he be one? Time will tell.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 06-09-2012 20:14
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 27880
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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kumazan wrote:
It is, but that's because it's extremely unusual to have a public personality like Vaughters opnely posting and answering questions in a public forum. That's something I really appreciate about him.
It's extremely unusual for a boss to admit doping on your riders' behalf ... on a public forum. That's just crazy and obviously a very good news story |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 06-09-2012 20:15
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 27880
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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roturn wrote:
Rumours that NetApp and Endura will fusion seem to be true. Ralph Denk said that the team is supposed to ride under the name NetApp-Endura. I guess they will stay in the PCT.
It's now been confirmed. |
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