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Criterium du Dauphine Libere Discussion Thread
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 25-03-2012 22:25
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Arroyo is so bad.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
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| Bushwackers |
Posted on 26-03-2012 04:17
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Sprinter
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David Lelay!!!! 
About the discussion though, I think everything would be fine if the AI were better about keeping the leaders in front and getting caught behind splits. Other than that, I think this version of PCM has been working great, compared to last year at least.
Edited by Bushwackers on 26-03-2012 04:21
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 08-12-2025 05:18
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 26-03-2012 11:40
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Step it up Zabriskie.
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| SotD |
Posted on 26-03-2012 11:41
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World Champion
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I think the sprinting has become better, but everything else? Worse.
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| p3druh |
Posted on 26-03-2012 14:45
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Ohhhh. Bakelants so close to winning that TT there. If only he'd have given it a bit more on that final stretch...
And I guess I'm the only one who's actually enjoying this season more than the previous ones. The results have been far more unpredictable than in previous seasons. I like that.
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| Kami |
Posted on 26-03-2012 14:52
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Classics Specialist
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p3druh wrote:
Ohhhh. Bakelants so close to winning that TT there. If only he'd have given it a bit more on that final stretch...
And I guess I'm the only one who's actually enjoying this season more than the previous ones. The results have been far more unpredictable than in previous seasons. I like that.
It's not that i don't like this season, i've been enjoying it equally as last year (probably due to being Pro Tour), but i still think the randomness is a bad factor.
I'll use myself as an example: I have Burghardt, who costs me as much as some stage racers. Due to the randomness in the cobbled races, i lost quite a lot of points (i believe 3 break aways took points away from him). However, i have not seen one rider lose a stage race due to break aways this season.
Also, one thing i don't like about the game itself (the gamestyle), is the 'unpassable' rider thingy. It's more realistic that you can't pass through riders anymore, i agree, but it causes unnecessary splits (mountain/cobbles) and blockings (sprints). Example: Tour de San Luis; VdB was caught in a split on narrow roads, because the rider before him ran out of energy and dragged him down.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 26-03-2012 14:59
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Kami, if you don't want Burghardt to lose points maybe you should build a cobbled team to chase down breakaways. You can't just buy a team leader and expect other teams to do your work.
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| Kami |
Posted on 26-03-2012 15:10
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alexkr00 wrote:
Kami, if you don't want Burghardt to lose points maybe you should build a cobbled team to chase down breakaways. You can't just buy a team leader and expect other teams to do your work.
Omloop: 4 riders top 50
East Midlands: 7 riders top 50
Gent - Wevelgem: 2 riders top 50
Ronde: 4 riders top 50
P-R: 3 rider top 50
I'm well aware that my cobbled team has no depth what so ever, but neither does my stage race team. Yet the only danger in the Giro came from other top favorites (and being blocked up the climbs), while in the cobbles breakaways played a way more significant role.
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| p3druh |
Posted on 26-03-2012 15:14
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Kami wrote:
p3druh wrote:
Ohhhh. Bakelants so close to winning that TT there. If only he'd have given it a bit more on that final stretch...
And I guess I'm the only one who's actually enjoying this season more than the previous ones. The results have been far more unpredictable than in previous seasons. I like that.
It's not that i don't like this season, i've been enjoying it equally as last year (probably due to being Pro Tour), but i still think the randomness is a bad factor.
I'll use myself as an example: I have Burghardt, who costs me as much as some stage racers. Due to the randomness in the cobbled races, i lost quite a lot of points (i believe 3 break aways took points away from him). However, i have not seen one rider lose a stage race due to break aways this season.
Also, one thing i don't like about the game itself (the gamestyle), is the 'unpassable' rider thingy. It's more realistic that you can't pass through riders anymore, i agree, but it causes unnecessary splits (mountain/cobbles) and blockings (sprints). Example: Tour de San Luis; VdB was caught in a split on narrow roads, because the rider before him ran out of energy and dragged him down.
The problem with the break aways is not due to the game, it's due to the rosters. I've raced some races in-game with the real rosters and with a "control" team and it wasn't anything like what's happening in the Man Game. Looking at the startlists, my guess is that it's mostly due to too many teams relying on just one leader and no good riders to help them out. That hasn't happened in stage races because of that same thing. More often than not you see guys like Samwel, Iglinskiy, Serpa, the spanish armada at Santander and other very good riders getting a lot of credit in the reports because of all the hard work they do. There hasn't been a great team in any classics so far. Maybe in Milan - San Remo there was (and the result was very realistic).
I don't see too many falls as compared to actual real life races but I do agree that the "getting dropped because of a slower rider" stuff is too exaggerated in the game. That's the only thing I can see wrong with the game. But it's not like it's only affecting some. And between this problem or having the problems we had with PCM 2009, I prefer the season we are currently having.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 26-03-2012 15:21
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Maybe you had more riders in the top 50, but in the end only 3 of your riders are above 70 in cobbles (including Burghardt). I don't think that's good enough to support a rider like Burghardt properly.
And as p3druh said, the fact that most teams lack in depth is probably the main factor of so many breakaways succeeding. A few years ago, before the salary cap was introduced, the teams were stronger and were able to control the race properly. Now, most teams can only afford like 2-3 leaders and one or two decent domestiques. And Bacardi is one of the best examples here.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that there are more facts than you need to consider when judging the result of some races, not only the game itself.
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| Kami |
Posted on 26-03-2012 15:27
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p3druh wrote:
And between this problem or having the problems we had with PCM 2009, I prefer the season we are currently having.
I do agree that this PCM is better then the previous versions, but what you described above is more the AI not handling things that well. Also, in the game, you can just put whatever rider you want in the race, we have the problems of dealing with race days, which makes us use lower class riders.
An example on the top of my head are the AI letting mid stage breaks gain to much time, so they can't really be pulled back. A stronger team might help, yet if 5 lieutenants attack, you would have to use 5 lieutenants to chase them down aswell.
And i know Bacardi is among those teams. I chose that way to build my team beforehand, as it payed of last year, and had to be sure to stay up this year. However, i feel like Burghardt without any help will lose more points then a stage racer without help. And i just use Burghardt as an example, i believe Bewley and Cancellara had similar problems.
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| tyriion |
Posted on 26-03-2012 15:41
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Sprinter
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p3druh wrote:
Kami wrote:
p3druh wrote:
Ohhhh. Bakelants so close to winning that TT there. If only he'd have given it a bit more on that final stretch...
And I guess I'm the only one who's actually enjoying this season more than the previous ones. The results have been far more unpredictable than in previous seasons. I like that.
It's not that i don't like this season, i've been enjoying it equally as last year (probably due to being Pro Tour), but i still think the randomness is a bad factor.
I'll use myself as an example: I have Burghardt, who costs me as much as some stage racers. Due to the randomness in the cobbled races, i lost quite a lot of points (i believe 3 break aways took points away from him). However, i have not seen one rider lose a stage race due to break aways this season.
Also, one thing i don't like about the game itself (the gamestyle), is the 'unpassable' rider thingy. It's more realistic that you can't pass through riders anymore, i agree, but it causes unnecessary splits (mountain/cobbles) and blockings (sprints). Example: Tour de San Luis; VdB was caught in a split on narrow roads, because the rider before him ran out of energy and dragged him down.
The problem with the break aways is not due to the game, it's due to the rosters. I've raced some races in-game with the real rosters and with a "control" team and it wasn't anything like what's happening in the Man Game. Looking at the startlists, my guess is that it's mostly due to too many teams relying on just one leader and no good riders to help them out. That hasn't happened in stage races because of that same thing. More often than not you see guys like Samwel, Iglinskiy, Serpa, the spanish armada at Santander and other very good riders getting a lot of credit in the reports because of all the hard work they do. There hasn't been a great team in any classics so far. Maybe in Milan - San Remo there was (and the result was very realistic).
I don't see too many falls as compared to actual real life races but I do agree that the "getting dropped because of a slower rider" stuff is too exaggerated in the game. That's the only thing I can see wrong with the game. But it's not like it's only affecting some. And between this problem or having the problems we had with PCM 2009, I prefer the season we are currently having.
I don't know if you can blame it completely on the rosters. CDiv2 has had random breaks winning cobbled races as well and there we have 2 teams that could control it properly with all their riders over 70 in cobbles. Of course the weird behavior there might have been caused by 5 man rosters, but 1 day races seem pretty random at times.
Check out my ManGame team here
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 26-03-2012 16:35
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Very nice to see Iglinski really going for it and climbing well. He didnt lose quite as much as Uran on the fail stage, and seems like he has a chance of salvaging a Top 10 on GC. Bakelandts and Rogers should fall away a bit over the next 2 stages.
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| viking90 |
Posted on 26-03-2012 16:41
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Arrgh that Lövkvist lost time on stage 3...
But after a good stage 5 he´s top 15, that´s great.
Hope that Bjelkmark or Eltink tries to get in a break in one stage. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 26-03-2012 16:49
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Well, some mixed performances by Dekker, but in the end, a top-3 is good enough. Would be nice with some better stage performances, though. |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 26-03-2012 17:39
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Nice to see Plaza at the top again. Too bad a top 10 is impossible now 
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| SotD |
Posted on 26-03-2012 18:07
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Decent comeback here from Contador. The next two stages he needs to climb 3 places. Anything less than 5th GC is a horrible result! 8th is a good start though, but Bakelants, Rogers and Kashechkin MUST be overtaken. Spilak, Phinney and Dekker is out of reach, but Amador could potentially be within reach if Contador is in good form the next couple of stages.
He needs to take quite some time on Bakelants, so he won't be a threat on the final stage.
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| SotD |
Posted on 26-03-2012 18:14
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alexkr00 wrote:
Kami, if you don't want Burghardt to lose points maybe you should build a cobbled team to chase down breakaways. You can't just buy a team leader and expect other teams to do your work.
Problem is that it doesn't work. You can have the strongest cobbled lineup in the world, but if the other teams won't help chasing because they are shitty it doesn't make a difference. And in all fairness quite a few teams give a damn about the cobbles, and so they only have 1 or perhaps 2 strong cobblers. The rest is just random riders taking place, perhaps with 66-68 cobbled stat.
I agree that it has been too random this year, and that splits have caused too many random things. I like that you will draw experiences through the season, so you will learn from it and improve towards the next season. But what can I learn from Fothen crashing out of the Giro? Contador crashing within the last 2km og California, and what can I learn from the abnormal splits that have cost my team leaders somewhere between 30min and 1hour in total this season? Nothing. I can't seem to find that it is more likely to happen without a strong team. It happens no matter how strong they are.
So next season I could go for the exact same team, and without the bad luck be 2nd in the PT rankings. Luck shouldn't determine that much imo. 2 places in the PT, 3 at the MAX due to randomness. The rest should be put into quality of the team, and the cleverness of the manager. And in all fairness that last part was EXTREMELY important previously. SN has done wonders with teams on par, and Sony Ericsson won with a decent team last year. Who could take credit for that? The managers. Just like they should. It wasn't because all the others crashed that Sony Ericsson won.
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 26-03-2012 19:51
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Arroyo did good
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 26-03-2012 19:51
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Team Leader
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Joined: 18-05-2008
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Arroyo did good
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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