|
Mechnical Doping
|
| BouBBox |
Posted on 06-06-2010 17:43
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 892
Joined: 01-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Juan wrote:
BouBBox wrote:
The French TV just showed a programm about this.
It clearly shows they all think Cancelarra cheated, professional ingeniors and cyclists worked to know more about it and it seems very likely...
Their argument is there has not been any changes of the pedaling speed when he accelerated not one.
The only argument for people supporting Cancellara was he is a great cycliste :S
PS : Was the video on Stade 2, BouBbox ?
Yup just after Rolland Garros
You have the eye of a speciallist 
Edited by BouBBox on 06-06-2010 17:44
Team Europcar !!
RIP Wouter
|
| |
|
|
| khris |
Posted on 06-06-2010 17:49
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 302
Joined: 15-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
BouBBox wrote:
The French TV just showed a programm about this.
It clearly shows they all think Cancelarra cheated, professional ingeniors and cyclists worked to know more about it and it seems very likely...
Their argument is there has not been any changes of the pedaling speed when he accelerated not one.
The only argument for people supporting Cancellara was he is a great cycliste :S
That argument isn't worth much. With the way that the alleged engine worked, according to Boardman and the videos, the pedalling speed would have increased with his speed, just as much as if he'd accellerated himself.
Or are they claiming that the engine is in the front or rear wheel hub now? |
| |
|
|
| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 06-06-2010 17:55
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
Joined: 19-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
But on the cassani video, wasn't it that it sped up the pedals as well?
|
| |
|
|
| LaMagliaRosa |
Posted on 06-06-2010 18:52
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 32
Joined: 04-01-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Surely the reason his pedalling speed didnt change was because he switched to a higher gear just before he went away. |
| |
|
|
| jacknic |
Posted on 06-06-2010 19:23
|
Domestique
Posts: 613
Joined: 19-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
LaMagliaRosa wrote:
Surely the reason his pedalling speed didnt change was because he switched to a higher gear just before he went away.
Yeah that seemed kinda obvious to me too...
Now flaunting my very first avatar...
|
| |
|
|
| M3d3k |
Posted on 06-06-2010 20:09
|
Free Agent
Posts: 129
Joined: 20-06-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
I cant believe that Cancelarra would have cheated, often he get away from peleton and driven many km in top gear sitting instead of sprint. But in cyclists we never know who is telling the true... |
| |
|
|
| BouBBox |
Posted on 06-06-2010 21:24
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 892
Joined: 01-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
LaMagliaRosa wrote:
Surely the reason his pedalling speed didnt change was because he switched to a higher gear just before he went away.
I know but when you change gear you need half a second to get used to the new one there should be a small thing showing he did...
Team Europcar !!
RIP Wouter
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 16:42
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| jacknic |
Posted on 07-06-2010 01:37
|
Domestique
Posts: 613
Joined: 19-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
BouBBox wrote:
LaMagliaRosa wrote:
Surely the reason his pedalling speed didnt change was because he switched to a higher gear just before he went away.
I know but when you change gear you need half a second to get used to the new one there should be a small thing showing he did...
With or without a mortor he would have to change gears to increase speed while keeping the same pedaling frequence.
The motor does not make the bike faster, it just makes pedaling demand less effort.
To increase speed without either pedaling faster or changing gears you would have to mount a motor directly on one of the wheel hubs as I think someone already stated. That is clearly not possible with the motor in question.
Now flaunting my very first avatar...
|
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 07-06-2010 10:18
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
jacknic wrote:
BouBBox wrote:
LaMagliaRosa wrote:
Surely the reason his pedalling speed didnt change was because he switched to a higher gear just before he went away.
I know but when you change gear you need half a second to get used to the new one there should be a small thing showing he did...
With or without a mortor he would have to change gears to increase speed while keeping the same pedaling frequence.
The motor does not make the bike faster, it just makes pedaling demand less effort.
To increase speed without either pedaling faster or changing gears you would have to mount a motor directly on one of the wheel hubs as I think someone already stated. That is clearly not possible with the motor in question. It wouldn't work. With the free wheels, when your rear wheel turns faster than how it'd turn when pedalling, the freewheels starts its job (it clutches off). it's like pedalling 80 RPM in a descent, when you'd need 150 to remain clutched.
The only way it works or would work, is adding a certain power directly into the crank set axis. Like 100 W or something (the more power the less time you can use it, as the energy in the battery is defined from the beginning, unless they found a way to load or reload it whilst riding). And 100 W makes a huge difference. For 70 kg riders, it's like the difference between a stage winner and a grupetto guy in a mountain stage (by Cyclismag standards, it's about 420 W on the last mountain to win the stage from the favourites group, and a grupetto does about 320-330).
So, even on the flat, it's an absolutely huge advantage.
According to somebody from Italy, on Cyclismag, it's not only Cancellara who's suspected though. A non-Italian sprinter is strongly suspected too (read : Cavendish).
Edited by Aquarius on 07-06-2010 10:19
|
| |
|
|
| Lachi |
Posted on 07-06-2010 14:19
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
I doubt both accusations (cance and cav) because both would need to ride the crooked bikes over the finish line where they can be checked by the officials. I am sure that bikes get checked for weight and other stuff since ever, especially the material of the winners. And if there is a button on the bike a huge alarm would ring in the head of the material inspector, don't you think.
|
| |
|
|
| Juan |
Posted on 07-06-2010 18:42
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1282
Joined: 09-12-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Lachi wrote:
I doubt both accusations (cance and cav) because both would need to ride the crooked bikes over the finish line where they can be checked by the officials. I am sure that bikes get checked for weight and other stuff since ever, especially the material of the winners. And if there is a button on the bike a huge alarm would ring in the head of the material inspector, don't you think.
Well, when you cheat, you're often clever, and I don't think any cyclist who's cheating is an idiot.
It must be easy to hide such stuff, and the weight isn't a problem.
|
| |
|
|
| jacknic |
Posted on 07-06-2010 22:39
|
Domestique
Posts: 613
Joined: 19-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
So now we are suspecting everyone with a little speed in their bikes?
I don't doubt that the mech doping is posible, but show me any evidence against any rider in the peloton other than "he went weally fast!". And no, a youtube video with red arrows in it is not evidence. It is a youtube video with red arrows in it.
Now flaunting my very first avatar...
|
| |
|
|
| Xavier |
Posted on 08-06-2010 06:32
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 933
Joined: 21-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
https://www.youtub...q0tE9Nxqrg |
| |
|
|
| facmanpob |
Posted on 08-06-2010 08:19
|
Domestique
Posts: 426
Joined: 29-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Its a nice video showing a quick bike change, but doesn't tell us anything except that Cancellara changed bikes during the race. I don't recall him changing bikes once he had broken away, which would mean that if he had cheated he would have crossed the line on the "dodgy" bike. Do the UCI check the winner's bike? |
| |
|
|
| Lachi |
Posted on 08-06-2010 08:35
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Or that he used the dodged bike before the change (to save energy at the first part of the race). But this would mean that the other videos must be faked.
So I have three questions:
Why does he need to change the bike? (If you cannot recognise the motor even during usage then you don't have to hide it before usage)
How often does the UCI check the bikes?
Why does nobody bash on Basso, it is so obvious that he is doping again so he does not need to have a motor to gain time in mountains? |
| |
|
|
| CrueTrue |
Posted on 08-06-2010 09:03
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
jacknic wrote:
So now we are suspecting everyone with a little speed in their bikes?
I don't doubt that the mech doping is posible, but show me any evidence against any rider in the peloton other than "he went weally fast!". And no, a youtube video with red arrows in it is not evidence. It is a youtube video with red arrows in it.
Exactly. There's not even a shred of circumstantial evidence...
Also, following up on Lachi's questions, I have another one:
- Why did Matti Breschel make the switch shortly after Cancellara, yet never made it back? With a motor in the bike, it'd be pretty easy to get back, wouldn't it? |
| |
|
|
| BouBBox |
Posted on 08-06-2010 09:46
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 892
Joined: 01-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Lachi wrote:
Or that he used the dodged bike before the change (to save energy at the first part of the race). But this would mean that the other videos must be faked.
So I have three questions:
Why does he need to change the bike? (If you cannot recognise the motor even during usage then you don't have to hide it before usage)
How often does the UCI check the bikes?
Why does nobody bash on Basso, it is so obvious that he is doping again so he does not need to have a motor to gain time in mountains?
The power doesn't last ages, the batterie would not last long enough and according to the video I saw, he changed bike twice and the batterie would have lasted (with the speed) just about the time between the two changes.
The UCI said they will from now check the bikes after and before races, so that means they didn't do it quite often.
In the stages I saw in the Giro (unfortunetly not a lot) his pedalling frequence was not very regular in mountains and if I remember well he attacked standing up on his weals... I am not saying he wasn't doped but just that mechanical doping doesn't seem possible.
Even if it seems like it, I don't think Cancellara used a motor I am just looking for an evidence showing he wasn't other than : "He is a great cyclist"
Team Europcar !!
RIP Wouter
|
| |
|
|
| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 08-06-2010 11:07
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
you guys are still here..with this subject..?
amazing |
| |
|
|
| CrueTrue |
Posted on 08-06-2010 11:11
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
BouBBox wrote:
Lachi wrote:
Or that he used the dodged bike before the change (to save energy at the first part of the race). But this would mean that the other videos must be faked.
So I have three questions:
Why does he need to change the bike? (If you cannot recognise the motor even during usage then you don't have to hide it before usage)
How often does the UCI check the bikes?
Why does nobody bash on Basso, it is so obvious that he is doping again so he does not need to have a motor to gain time in mountains?
Even if it seems like it, I don't think Cancellara used a motor I am just looking for an evidence showing he wasn't other than : "He is a great cyclist"
It's the claim makers who have to come up with the evidence. The claim here is that Cancellara used a motor, therefore we need to see some evidence from those who claim that. So far, there's none - except for a video showing Cancellara changing gears which is not even close to being evidence. |
| |
|
|
| Lachi |
Posted on 08-06-2010 11:16
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
BouBBox wrote:
Lachi wrote:
Or that he used the dodged bike before the change (to save energy at the first part of the race). But this would mean that the other videos must be faked.
So I have three questions:
Why does he need to change the bike? (If you cannot recognise the motor even during usage then you don't have to hide it before usage)
How often does the UCI check the bikes?
Why does nobody bash on Basso, it is so obvious that he is doping again so he does not need to have a motor to gain time in mountains?
The power doesn't last ages, the batterie would not last long enough and according to the video I saw, he changed bike twice and the batterie would have lasted (with the speed) just about the time between the two changes.
The UCI said they will from now check the bikes after and before races, so that means they didn't do it quite often.
In the stages I saw in the Giro (unfortunetly not a lot) his pedalling frequence was not very regular in mountains and if I remember well he attacked standing up on his weals... I am not saying he wasn't doped but just that mechanical doping doesn't seem possible.
Even if it seems like it, I don't think Cancellara used a motor I am just looking for an evidence showing he wasn't other than : "He is a great cyclist"
I hope that you are trying to be funny else you must be plain stupid. How on earth could you know how long the battery does last if you don't even know what and how many batteries could have been used? |
| |
|
