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TdF'13 Stage 16 - Vaison-la-Romaine to Gap (July 16)
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 17-07-2013 18:18
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
Joined: 19-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Ian Butler wrote:
Spilak23 wrote:
In EPO time, you didn't even need training. You just took EPO and that was your training.
You still needed to train. Training is how Armstrong beated Ullrich 5 times.
Also equipment does change for the better, uphill it's a matter of weight, but even that rule will change. But look at Froome's gear thing, not O-shaped. Things still change.
Vino, Julich already used that at the start of the 2000's. Difference is almost neglectable
Do you really believe everything is exactly like 10 years ago?
Then I can't discuss this with you. 
People also trained in the 60s. I wouldn't recommend their training methods now. Methods get better and more scientific. Sky is the most professional at this. For their bikes, they look into other sports to get the most out of aerodynamics. Once again, Armstrong just needed his daily dose of *PCM*, then who cared about getting every percentage out of training and his bike.
Everything may not but it is ridiculous to imagine that Armstrong didn't train as hard as he could just because he could dope. Doping may give you a large advantage but training does actually have an effect on top of that... |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 17-07-2013 18:22
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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Yes, but the training methods have changed. I don't say people train more now, they train better.
Merckx' time riders trained a lot more. They spent every day from morning to evening on the bike. That's a lot more than young riders now. But it wasn't better. Now young riders are told not to overtrain, etc. |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 17-07-2013 19:03
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
Joined: 19-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Ian Butler wrote:
Yes, but the training methods have changed. I don't say people train more now, they train better.
Merckx' time riders trained a lot more. They spent every day from morning to evening on the bike. That's a lot more than young riders now. But it wasn't better. Now young riders are told not to overtrain, etc.
Yeah, but do you think the tiny advances in training in the last 10 years or so have accounted for the up to 20% advantage doping can give you? |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 10:22
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 17-07-2013 19:08
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Boys..boys. Dope wont make you fly..
You need to be at top shape..and do not forget doping is not for races..it comes a big helper at training also |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 17-07-2013 19:19
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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You know what?
You can't demand we stop saying Sky are doped without proof, and then claim Sky are more advanced without proof. You can't have it both ways.
Either you accept that we have a right to accuse Sky, or you shut up with the 'but SCIENCE!' crap. Pick one.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 17-07-2013 19:21
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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issoisso wrote:
You know what?
You can't demand we stop saying Sky are doped without proof, and then claim Sky are more advanced without proof. You can't have it both ways.
Either you accept that we have a right to accuse Sky, or you shut up with the 'but SCIENCE!' crap. Pick one.
Once again. It's all right to ask questions/accuse. But for some/most journalists it's all they can talk about.
I don't see how anyone can still enjoy the sport when every effort is being said to have been doped. Although I must admit the Tour is the worst time.
Also, guilty until proven innocent, then? 
Edited by Ian Butler on 17-07-2013 19:22
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| issoisso |
Posted on 17-07-2013 19:24
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Ian Butler wrote:
Also, guilty until proven innocent, then?
No. Innocent until the house is filled with black smoke, at which point we have to admit there just might be fire.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 17-07-2013 19:33
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Ian Butler wrote:
Once again. It's all right to ask questions/accuse. But for some/most journalists it's all they can talk about.
I don't see how anyone can still enjoy the sport when every effort is being said to have been doped. Although I must admit the Tour is the worst time.
Also, guilty until proven innocent, then?
Look at tour last decade..15 years. Sic! Natural will be that you are suspicious after every domination and unhuman effort that Froome has been showing...day after day.
Starting at Dauphine!!! Madness |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 18-07-2013 08:41
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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Guido Mukk wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Once again. It's all right to ask questions/accuse. But for some/most journalists it's all they can talk about.
I don't see how anyone can still enjoy the sport when every effort is being said to have been doped. Although I must admit the Tour is the worst time.
Also, guilty until proven innocent, then?
Look at tour last decade..15 years. Sic! Natural will be that you are suspicious after every domination and unhuman effort that Froome has been showing...day after day.
Starting at Dauphine!!! Madness
You're right.
I'm relatively new to the sport, so I didn't live through the Armstrong/EPO time, that might explain why I'm not as suspicious.
Wait for another few scandals and I'll be on board 100% |
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