|
News in June
|
| chris01 |
Posted on 14-06-2012 04:44
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 358
Joined: 12-09-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
CountArach wrote:
chris01 wrote:
Going back to my first post, how is the 7 postive tests any different than the big bang theory with god? (once again not trying to say that lance is a god or anything like that to people who are stupid enough to think i am)
I'm confused about what you are trying to say. Are you trying say that claiming that Lance doped is a logical fallacy? Or that there is no evidence for it? I'll just warn you if that is what your argument boils down to (a comparison between te logical positions of God and Armstrong) then your argument will hold less than zero weight with Atheists. Sticking to the corporeal realm and avoiding confusing analogies would be far safer and easier.
yeah i realize now that it wasn't a very good and confusing analogy  sorry.
Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring.
|
| |
|
|
| arthon |
Posted on 14-06-2012 04:45
|
Domestique
Posts: 581
Joined: 22-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
chris01 wrote:
issoisso, since you think Lance doped what do you think should be done? Do you think they should take away his victories?
The point is he shouldn't be regarded anymore as a cycling god, the american cycling hero, etc etc.
chris01 wrote:
well since everybody else doped who the fuck cares if Lance doped? It isn't like he had an unfair advantage. I am now starting to see that this a pointless topic. Why are people trying so hard to prove he doped? what are you going to get out of it if it is proven that he doped? He still fought for and legitimitely won those 7 Tours and nothing will ever change that!!!
Well yes, but he always claimed and tried to prove that he was clean. Hard thing to prove, though, when all the guys you beat were high as a kite on EPO.
That's the whole point of this action: not taking away his achievements, but rather setting the record straight.
Edit: Besides, imagine taking away his 2003 TdF title. Who'd be promoted to race winner? Because the top 10 contains 8 serious dopers (don't know about Zubeldia or Sastre).
Edited by arthon on 14-06-2012 04:52
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 06:49
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 14-06-2012 04:45
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
chris01 wrote:
well since everybody else doped who the fuck cares if Lance doped? It isn't like he had an unfair advantage.
Oh but he did. Different drugs have massively different effects on different riders.
Edwig Van Hooydonck won the Ronde van Vlaanderen twice by age 25. Then EPO came and he couldn't win anything.
Bjarne Riis was an average domestique. Then EPO came and he was 5th in the Tour instantly and won the KOM jersey too.
That is one of the main reasons doping has to stop.
chris01 wrote:
I am now starting to see that this a pointless topic. Why are people trying so hard to prove he doped? what are you going to get out of it if it is proven that he doped? He still fought for and legitimitely won those 7 Tours and nothing will ever change that!!!
But the lives he destroyed and the people he blackmailed will be vindicated.
Listen to the interview with Betsy Andreu if you're interested in the full scope of the type of manipulation and destruction he's capable of to keep people quiet.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
|
| |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 14-06-2012 04:46
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
ochocinco85 wrote:
If they do take away his victories, do you think that will include his 2007 Nick kids choice award for favorite male athlete? 
I'm sure he'll be devastated by that
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
|
| |
|
|
| jseadog1 |
Posted on 14-06-2012 04:47
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 9595
Joined: 18-07-2010
PCM$: 13552.00
|
issoisso wrote:
chris01 wrote:
well since everybody else doped who the fuck cares if Lance doped? It isn't like he had an unfair advantage.
Oh but he did. Different drugs have massively different effects on different riders.
Edwig Van Hooydonck won the Ronde van Vlaanderen twice by age 25. Then EPO came and he couldn't win anything.
Bjarne Riis was an average domestique. Then EPO came and he was 5th in the Tour instantly and won the KOM jersey too.
That is one of the main reasons doping has to stop.
chris01 wrote:
I am now starting to see that this a pointless topic. Why are people trying so hard to prove he doped? what are you going to get out of it if it is proven that he doped? He still fought for and legitimitely won those 7 Tours and nothing will ever change that!!!
But the lives he destroyed and the people he blackmailed will be vindicated.
Listen to the interview with Betsy Andreu if you're interested in the full scope of the type of manipulation and destruction he's capable of to keep people quiet.
Yeah that is a good point
PCM.Daily Survivor Season 2 Fan Favorite Winner
PCM.Daily NFL Fantasy Football Champion: 2012
PCM.Daily NHL Prediction Game Champion: 2013
PCM.Daily NFL Prediction Game Champion: 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2021
|
| |
|
|
| chris01 |
Posted on 14-06-2012 04:51
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 358
Joined: 12-09-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
So the guy isn't perfect but noone is so noone should expect him to be. he blackmailed people because he knows that he is a huge role model to kids in america so he doesn't want them to grow up and use drugs. He was just simply trying to give a clean image for people to look up to, he just did it in the wrong way and didn't know the kinda damage he was doing.
Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring.
|
| |
|
|
| Teddy The Creator |
Posted on 14-06-2012 04:56
|
Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2253
Joined: 19-10-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
chris01 wrote:
So the guy isn't perfect but noone is so noone should expect him to be. he blackmailed people because he knows that he is a huge role model to kids in america so he doesn't want them to grow up and use drugs. He was just simply trying to give a clean image for people to look up to, he just did it in the wrong way and didn't know the kinda damage he was doing.
That is very wishful thinking.
|
| |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 14-06-2012 05:01
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Teddy The Creator wrote:
chris01 wrote:
So the guy isn't perfect but noone is so noone should expect him to be. he blackmailed people because he knows that he is a huge role model to kids in america so he doesn't want them to grow up and use drugs. He was just simply trying to give a clean image for people to look up to, he just did it in the wrong way and didn't know the kinda damage he was doing.
That is very wishful thinking.
Very.
Not to mention that wishful thinking or not, it's going out of the realm of facts that I like to keep discussions in, and going into guessing what Armstrong's motivations may be.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
|
| |
|
|
| chris01 |
Posted on 14-06-2012 05:08
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 358
Joined: 12-09-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
In other news Joe Dombrowski lost his lead in the Baby Giro today because of a late flat. Not a very good way to loose the jersey but i think he will get it back on the Gavia, and next year riding for Garmin? he certainly is a great talent.
Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring.
|
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 14-06-2012 06:43
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
chris01 wrote:
I'm just wondering, does anybody hear believe in god?
There's only one God : The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Period.
I guess you've never had too many philosophy courses (neither did I), but when you're interested by thing such as truth, science, etc. you realise that an opinion is not a fact, and vice-versa.
You're free to believe whatever you want, such as the Earth is flat, Intelligent Design, man never walked on the moon, etc. but that doesn't make it true, or right. Actually, beliefs are of no interest when it comes to facts.
If there's EPO in someone's urine, it's not a matter of opinon : THERE IS EPO in it. Question is 'how did it get there ?' not 'do I have to believe it's there ? I'm free to believe whatever I want'. |
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 14-06-2012 07:12
|
World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
You guys had a very long night, i hope you will not miss your responsibilities for today. 
Thanks isso for the article, it was very interesting to read. And of course Armstrong doped, majority of people did it than.The worst thing is, that Lance will never confess to it as the others did and will keep blackmaiing and threatening people.Maybe he is so far,that he actually believes it (well more likely he is a cold-blood liar).
We have many evidence pointing on doping of Lance, but one thing is making it clear for me even more than claims and tests. That is the fact, that this man won 7 Tours during extreme EPO usage period, how the fuck could that be possible without doping???
|
| |
|
|
| jph27 |
Posted on 14-06-2012 07:22
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7339
Joined: 20-03-2010
PCM$: 900.00
|
USADA have basically said what we all knew, just officially and with clear evidence. Good on them, but also about time. |
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 14-06-2012 07:23
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
issoisso wrote:
chris01 wrote:
issoisso, since you think Lance doped what do you think should be done? Do you think they should take away his victories?
Nope. The others were on the same stuff, he just did what he had to do to compete. Under the circumstances he was the best, so he should keep those wins IMO
I'm not sure. Ullrich or Beloki, etc. probably didn't deserve it more than Armstrong.
Still, I feel sorry for all the guys who were constantly spoiled, back then, while doing their job with integrity. They were far from the majority, but still.
Not doing anything would be like telling them : "You were beaten by cheaters, but there were many of them. Bummer." |
| |
|
|
| jph27 |
Posted on 14-06-2012 07:25
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7339
Joined: 20-03-2010
PCM$: 900.00
|
Aquarius wrote:
issoisso wrote:
chris01 wrote:
issoisso, since you think Lance doped what do you think should be done? Do you think they should take away his victories?
Nope. The others were on the same stuff, he just did what he had to do to compete. Under the circumstances he was the best, so he should keep those wins IMO
I'm not sure. Ullrich or Beloki, etc. probably didn't deserve it more than Armstrong.
Still, I feel sorry for all the guys who were constantly spoiled, back then, while doing their job with integrity. They were far from the majority, but still.
Not doing anything would be like telling them : "You were beaten by cheaters, but there were many of them. Bummer."
Moncoutie, Bassons, who else though? Interested to know. |
| |
|
|
| BrokenShards |
Posted on 14-06-2012 07:26
|
Under 23
Posts: 61
Joined: 22-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
I think this is all above my pay grade. My opinion is, he was a good rider, you can't really take that away from him, but coming back in 09 was possibly the worst decision of his career, he put himself back into the limelight.
After the steak-saga and if this is true, cyclings image will take another dent, and that is the real loser, not an individual, but the sport.
|
| |
|
|
| Levi4life |
Posted on 14-06-2012 08:23
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4882
Joined: 16-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
I remember when I was defending a doper on these here forums. I even had some fairly convincing data on my side. Then the guy fessed up a few years later. I was so very young and naïve then. Now I'm old and cynical. Isso hasn't changed a bit though 
|
| |
|
|
| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 14-06-2012 08:35
|
World Champion
Posts: 10121
Joined: 01-05-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Isso, thanks for that long post on Armstrong a couple of pages ago. Enjoyed reading it almost as much as the one you wrote about Andy.
Please keep doing these kind of things. Nothing better than following a facts vs. fanboys discussion.
|
| |
|
|
| dienblad |
Posted on 14-06-2012 09:01
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3772
Joined: 10-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
People, I'm convinced: Lance didn't win the 7 Tours in a clean way.................
I'm very sad to say this, it is a black moment for the sport, but I'm convinced..... 
|
| |
|
|
| Alesle |
Posted on 14-06-2012 09:22
|
Stagiare
Posts: 192
Joined: 30-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
chris01 wrote:
issoisso did he test positive in any drug test after his return in 2009?
"In the 15-page charging letter obtained by The Washington Post, USADA outlined new allegations against Armstrong, saying it collected blood samples from him in 2009 and 2010 that were “fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions.” " |
| |
|
|
| kumazan |
Posted on 14-06-2012 10:19
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6662
Joined: 02-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
issoisso wrote:
chris01 wrote:
issoisso, since you think Lance doped what do you think should be done? Do you think they should take away his victories?
Nope. The others were on the same stuff, he just did what he had to do to compete. Under the circumstances he was the best, so he should keep those wins IMO
It's as Zülle once said: "The effect of EPO is so large, it was either take it or go back to painting houses"
IMO, they should take away those victories, and left the race without an official winner. It'd be the fairest solution.
Edit: Oh, and I'm still waiting Cavendish to say that he hopes Armstrong becomes someone's bitch in prison.
Edited by kumazan on 14-06-2012 10:23
|
| |
|
