|
2015 Giro d'Italia - Week Two (16th - 23rd May)
|
| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 20-05-2015 00:17
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
|
Malkael wrote:
Orica - GreenEDGE trying to butter up Richie Porte for a potential switch from Team Sky or what? Obviously you get alliances, temporary or otherwise, in races but come on lads you got potential stage victories coming up there was no need for Michael Matthews to waste energy pulling. 
It doesn't look like it's Michael matthews |
| |
|
|
| Malkael |
Posted on 20-05-2015 00:18
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1697
Joined: 02-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
They are using (roughly) over three-quarters of the whole circuit during the stage by my reckoning, checked out the route on Google maps while researching the stage. They leave the race track at the Variante Alta Chicane to head to the climb at Pediano and rejoin at Rivazza for the final corner in to the home straight.
fidjim2013 wrote:
Malkael wrote:
...
It doesn't look like it's Michael matthews
Obviously Simon Clarke was the one who lent his wheel but (at the least) Michael Matthews definitely helped Team Sky at one stage on TV by helping relay with Team Sky and Richie Porte when they were chasing to get back to the peloton before the finish.
Edited by Malkael on 20-05-2015 00:24
|
| |
|
|
| Nin1388 |
Posted on 20-05-2015 07:17
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1565
Joined: 04-09-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
I think people are getting concept of sportmanship wrong here. Total respect to Clarke for helping Porte.
But nobody has thought of extreme that this stuff can go to. Currently Contador has 8 riders working for him and as days go his team will eventually tire out. So than deep pockets of Oleg Tinkov can ask some other team say Katusa to work for him as they have nothing to lose.
So next GT Sky with deep pockets will do same thing.
So to avoid this they have usually made such rules. |
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-05-2015 07:37
|
World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
Not sure what is to discuss here? Rules are clear, they were broken, Porte was given a penalty that belongs to this rule, nothing to discuss here.
Shame it is not 4 minutes penalty, when it is a SKY rider.
Both Porte and Clarke are pure stupidity.
|
| |
|
|
| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 20-05-2015 07:57
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7702
Joined: 24-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Malkael wrote:
They are using (roughly) over three-quarters of the whole circuit during the stage by my reckoning, checked out the route on Google maps while researching the stage. They leave the race track at the Variante Alta Chicane to head to the climb at Pediano and rejoin at Rivazza for the final corner in to the home straight.
So the climb from Tosa to Piratella and through Acque Minerali won't make much difference then if they leave the track for a bit. Although it might a launchpad to a longshot attack.
What a great race track Imola is. In terms of sheer driving experience better than Monza. |
| |
|
|
| ianrussell |
Posted on 20-05-2015 09:43
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3440
Joined: 09-10-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
How come Boem is in the red points jersey - some weird scoring system where one stage placing and a couple of high scoring intermediates puts him in the lead?
Can't remember him featuring in any other breakaway and he's been no where on any other stage finish. :/
Porte's diplomacy filtered response to yesterday here: https://www.teamsky.com/teamsky/home%2...Z1Qgfpp.97
Note to team all go the same side of a roundabout 
Edited by ianrussell on 20-05-2015 09:47
|
| |
|
|
| Ian Butler |
Posted on 20-05-2015 09:47
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Not sure what is to discuss here? Rules are clear, they were broken, Porte was given a penalty that belongs to this rule, nothing to discuss here.
Shame it is not 4 minutes penalty, when it is a SKY rider.
Both Porte and Clarke are pure stupidity.
What the big problem is, is that the reason behind this rule is to avoid teams getting together and working together.
Though when 2 riders talk and their teams obviously work together against another rider, which occassionally happens, it's no problem?
But giving a wheel is... Yeah, shame on those teams, they had planned this all along! |
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 17:23
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Ian Butler |
Posted on 20-05-2015 09:52
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
ianrussell wrote:
How come Boem is in the red points jersey - some weird scoring system where one stage placing and a couple of high scoring intermediates puts him in the lead?
Can't remember him featuring in any other breakaway and he's been no where on any other stage finish. :/
I am baffled by these points classification rules this year. I just don't get them. |
| |
|
|
| Smowz |
Posted on 20-05-2015 10:29
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6479
Joined: 09-04-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Pretty simple here Porte screwed up - and has got punished. I can understand why he did it - spur of the moment thing clearly.
It is possibly unfortunate for the race but maybe not. Porte and Sky are capable of attacking the race - but you got the feeling that what may happen before yesterday is that Porte may have snatched the pink jersey on the chrono and then attempted to ride defensively to the end. (i.e. follow follow follow follow then do Purito style late attack with 1.5km to go).
Not an option now!
|
| |
|
|
| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 20-05-2015 10:34
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
|
Ian Butler wrote:
ianrussell wrote:
How come Boem is in the red points jersey - some weird scoring system where one stage placing and a couple of high scoring intermediates puts him in the lead?
Can't remember him featuring in any other breakaway and he's been no where on any other stage finish. :/
I am baffled by these points classification rules this year. I just don't get them.
50points for his stage win, 2nd place got 35. He also got 24 at IS's which added to his existing total of 24 gives him 98 points and the Maglia Rosa. Really it's quite simple 
Considering half the stages have gone to breaks and that no-one has won more than one stage Boem leading the competition makes a lot of sense. He wins a flat stage that puts him on par with Greipel or Viviani. Plus being in a couple of breaks gives him points which a sprint won't get. Hence wearing the jersey outright.
The Rosa points system is needlessly complicated to my eyes with it's three-tiers of stages giving three different sets of points. But once you find the rules explained somewhere you can at least follow the maths through.
|
| |
|
|
| MARSUPILAMI |
Posted on 20-05-2015 10:37
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5597
Joined: 10-08-2013
PCM$: 300.00
|
Today ----------------- Paterski
|
| |
|
|
| roturn |
Posted on 20-05-2015 10:52
|
Team Manager
Posts: 22246
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
|
So Lotto NL started with one rider less while Bardiani goes the other way.
|
| |
|
|
| MARSUPILAMI |
Posted on 20-05-2015 11:00
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5597
Joined: 10-08-2013
PCM$: 300.00
|
Boem maybe?
|
| |
|
|
| cactus-jack |
Posted on 20-05-2015 11:28
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3936
Joined: 31-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ian Butler wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Not sure what is to discuss here? Rules are clear, they were broken, Porte was given a penalty that belongs to this rule, nothing to discuss here.
Shame it is not 4 minutes penalty, when it is a SKY rider.
Both Porte and Clarke are pure stupidity.
What the big problem is, is that the reason behind this rule is to avoid teams getting together and working together.
Though when 2 riders talk and their teams obviously work together against another rider, which occassionally happens, it's no problem?
But giving a wheel is... Yeah, shame on those teams, they had planned this all along!
Aiding in a meechanical is something different, misa thinks.
Say there's a mountain top finish and a break with a couple of spanish riders are up ahead. Contador attaks, gains a 20 second advantage to Aru, but just as he catches the earlier break something happens with his bike (messed up gear, or something). One of the spanish riders steps off and gives him his bike, allowing him to continue without losing more than a few seconds to Aru.
I don't know if the rules say anything specific about crossing the line on a different teams bike (same team is okay), but that could potentially happen.
Allowing for widespread dealings between teams is opening up a whole new can of problems.
I don't have any predictions for todays stage, other than that Maldonado will find a way to crash somewhere and somehow.
Edited by cactus-jack on 20-05-2015 11:29
There's a fine line between "psychotherapist" and "psycho the rapist"
|
| |
|
|
| madzdaman |
Posted on 20-05-2015 11:50
|
Stagiare
Posts: 194
Joined: 26-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
I get why it's against the ule, as letting it go would mean when it is used to just gain an advantage, they cant be punished. But on the other hand, It's unfair that Porte even had the puncture in the first place, and i'd rather time be won where the riders have a level field rather than the giro be lost on one stage because he got a puncture. If this had happened on the last stage to contador, and he lost the giro because of it, we would be having a completely different conversation, which imo is hypocritical. I dont even want Porte to win, just for him to be given an opportunity to win. And i dont necessarily mind the punishment so i should really make my mind up.
love the Maldonado reference 
Also, i thought that swapping equipment was allowed? i swear i remember HTC Highroad a few years ago said that they made pacts with other teams in the break to only have one of their cars help both riders so they can get away with less cars and thus less operating costs. i may be wrong on the team or just the whole thing
|
| |
|
|
| Ian Butler |
Posted on 20-05-2015 11:51
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
cactus-jack wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Not sure what is to discuss here? Rules are clear, they were broken, Porte was given a penalty that belongs to this rule, nothing to discuss here.
Shame it is not 4 minutes penalty, when it is a SKY rider.
Both Porte and Clarke are pure stupidity.
What the big problem is, is that the reason behind this rule is to avoid teams getting together and working together.
Though when 2 riders talk and their teams obviously work together against another rider, which occassionally happens, it's no problem?
But giving a wheel is... Yeah, shame on those teams, they had planned this all along!
Aiding in a meechanical is something different, misa thinks.
Say there's a mountain top finish and a break with a couple of spanish riders are up ahead. Contador attaks, gains a 20 second advantage to Aru, but just as he catches the earlier break something happens with his bike (messed up gear, or something). One of the spanish riders steps off and gives him his bike, allowing him to continue without losing more than a few seconds to Aru.
I don't know if the rules say anything specific about crossing the line on a different teams bike (same team is okay), but that could potentially happen.
Allowing for widespread dealings between teams is opening up a whole new can of problems.
I don't have any predictions for todays stage, other than that Maldonado will find a way to crash somewhere and somehow.
While you are correct in that example, I still think they should look at each situation differently and not blindly obey the rules - which they usually do!
I remember no rider getting punished for riding on sidewalks or cycling paths, no rider getting punished crossing the railroads etc...
But in this particular case, where a 50 second loss could already be seen as a "punishment", they have to add another 2 minutes.
Just sounds a bunch of bollocks to me. Look at the situation and then apply the rules or not. In this case, I don't see any real problem. |
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-05-2015 11:56
|
World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
madzdaman wrote:
But on the other hand, It's unfair that Porte even had the puncture in the first place, and i'd rather time be won where the riders have a level field rather than the giro be lost on one stage because he got a puncture.
Well, what should we do about this?
Life is unfair, shit happens, so Porte and his fans has to deal with it. Everybody in the peloton suffered several punctures during their careers, some of them in most crucial moments. We can be sorry, but we cant allow to break the rules just for sake of some "fairness".
|
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-05-2015 11:59
|
World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
Ian Butler wrote:
Just sounds a bunch of bollocks to me. Look at the situation and then apply the rules or not. In this case, I don't see any real problem.
How you caanot see the problem mate? It is fobidden because you would gain an advantage by abusing it, instead of lost time waiting for yours team or neutral service car, you accepted given wheel and trespassed the rules, so you are punished for that by standartized time. Porte (and Clarke) as the professional athletes should be aware about the rules. This shows that they are rather amateurs...
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 20-05-2015 12:00
|
| |
|
|
| Ian Butler |
Posted on 20-05-2015 12:05
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Just sounds a bunch of bollocks to me. Look at the situation and then apply the rules or not. In this case, I don't see any real problem.
How you caanot see the problem mate? It is fobidden because you would gain an advantage by abusing it, instead of lost time waiting for yours team or neutral service car, you accepted given wheel and trespassed the rules, so you are punished for that by standartized time. Porte (and Clarke) as the professional athletes should be aware about the rules. This shows that they are rather amateurs...
It's not the rule per se that bothers me. It's the fact that UCI seems to carry out rules at random!
I mean look at Quintana last year, or the trains in Paris - Roubaix, or the riders riding on the sidewalk in the Flanders Classics. Those things are all forbidden but not sanctioned. So what's up with that?
If you're going to carry out your rules, do it consistently. Don't do a half-assed job. |
| |
|
|
| madzdaman |
Posted on 20-05-2015 12:07
|
Stagiare
Posts: 194
Joined: 26-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
madzdaman wrote:
But on the other hand, It's unfair that Porte even had the puncture in the first place, and i'd rather time be won where the riders have a level field rather than the giro be lost on one stage because he got a puncture.
Well, what should we do about this?
Life is unfair, shit happens, so Porte and his fans has to deal with it. Everybody in the peloton suffered several punctures during their careers, some of them in most crucial moments. We can be sorry, but we cant allow to break the rules just for sake of some "fairness".
My point was that it wasnt Porte trying to gain an unfair advantage, but rather negate an unfair disadvantage. I know shit happens and this isnt different to a puncture on the cobbles in the tour, but the rule is a bit harsh imo. it's not like you can gain an advantage from borrowing equipment either.
|
| |
|
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
