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News in February
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| Smitho |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:11
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 270
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What is the guy going on about boonen Smoking??? Wouldnt like to comment  i was saying you have to train at a youngish age to become decent at a certain discipline rather than being 26 and then train unless you have the perfect body type. Some of you will say body type does not mater because of menchov but i bet he has always trained to be a stage racers. I tcan understadn someone saying a classics riders (hilly) to a stage racer but a cobble classics rider to a stage racer nowaday is gona require an alien or a hell of a lot of drugs!!! |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:11
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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mrlol wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
mrlol wrote:
It's not like Tom Boonen can completely re-shape his body so it fits a climber: small and light.
Indurain, Ullrich, Pereiro all won the tour and aren't small and light
at least one is doped, one like doddy said from a break and the other was before my time.
but none of them started as classic riders/sprinters (again, indurain I dont know much about)
most of the riders he was racing were doped so it's not really a valis point |
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| ruben |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:11
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
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all i'm saying is why can't one skill be transfered into another?
BECAUSE ALL HUMANS HAVE THEIR LIMITS.
Again. Every human is different, has different physical abilites and you can't just convert easily... it's proven again and again in cycling history. But you seem to be oblivious to that |
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| t-baum |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:12
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2153
Joined: 07-09-2007
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ringo182 wrote:
everyones laughing but no-ones said anything comprehensive that will prove me wrong. i've had an answer for everything so far.
and why are people getting personal? this is a forum where opinions can be expressed. i've got an opinion and so far no one's proved otherwise, who's the real idiot t-baum? me with a full arguement or someone who's only contribution is 4 words with no point at all.
Tour 2012:
Macquet wrote:
"We all know that wasn't the real footage of the Worlds anyway. That was just the staged footage to perpetuate the coverup that it was actually Vinokourov that won the race." |
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:12
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7891
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considering he's lived (and may still be, not sure) in Nice. I'd imagine he'd have tried the hills almost daily.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:13
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7694
Joined: 18-08-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Ruben wrote:
all i'm saying is why can't one skill be transfered into another?
BECAUSE ALL HUMANS HAVE THEIR LIMITS.
Again. Every human is different, has different physical abilites and you can't just convert easily... it's proven again and again in cycling history. But you seem to be oblivious to that
You know what, if i start practicing really hard, shed some 50 kilos and avoid EPO, i can win TdF in 10 years time. I mean, ill be 28 then, in my best age physically, and then ill train sprinting for another 5 years and win M-SR just for show.
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| Xavier |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:13
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 933
Joined: 21-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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ringo182 wrote:
Ruben wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Xavier wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Xavier wrote:
so by your logic if tom boonen trains more than lance armstrong hes gonna win the tour? lol
why not? he obviously has the strength in his legs to go over mountains. If he was to concentrate on training in mountains why couldn't he become a world class climber? he would loose his sprinting ability but you don't need that to win the tour.
so why did he become a sprinter/rider for the classics if he could win the tour?
because he knows he lacks the talent for climbing, body type, mentality, discipline, recuperation, team etc.. because he doesnt have the characteristics of a good climber/GC rider
if we were to race eachother, you and me, and we trained as much prior to the race, one of us would be faster than the other, because one of us has more talent/feel/body/whatever or the conditions of the race suit one better than the other
because boonen was brought up in belgium where there are no hills or mountains! ever wondered why the best climbers come from countries with mountain ranges.
now boonen is a classics rider he is stuck as one. if he turned round to quickstep and said i want to train in the mountains all next year they would turn round and say "no, were paying you money to win classics not stage races". but who's to say if he was to train in the mountains for a year he couldn't become a good mountain rider? look at indurain, he was a big guy, look at Ullrich, look at Voigt. all big guys good in the mountains because they trainrd there!
and yes, but thats just down to our physicall build. you might be faster on the flat but i'd beat you on the hills. we'd be the same in terms of overall ability.
That's such a load of bullcrap.
Robert Gesink comes from the flat lands in Gelderland (the Netherlands). He's a climber.
Thomas Dekker comes from the polders in Northern Holland (regio Amsterdam, no hills or mountains there), he is a gc-rider
Jurgen van den Broeck, also a Belgian who comes from flat lands, 5th in the Giro last year (not counting Sella and Ricco the dopers).
So wtf are you talking about? These guys never trained on mountains in their youth and they turned out to be good climbers the minute they first climbed. It's a gift, a talent!!!! Sure you can train to improve a skill, but you can't just train your way from being a sprinter to being a climber, you need to have some talent or natural ability to do so!
it is possible to train in mountains even if you live in the lowlands, they're called training camps. it's also possible to be good in the mountains by just being powerful (Ullrich, Indurain, Voigt) so you can't really prove anything conclusive by saying Dekker and Gessink are good climbers.
As for converting a sprinter to a climber. Whats stopping Cavendish becoming a good 1 day classics rider? he's got the power to get up short sharp climbs, if he trained at it why couldn't he win the Amstel gold or Liege-bastogne-liege?
gravity ;p i dont know if youve seen Cavendish in the giro or the tour de france but there he got dropped in the first km on the short sharp climbs
Edited by Xavier on 26-02-2009 17:14
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| mrlol |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:13
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5005
Joined: 24-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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ringo182 wrote:
mrlol wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
mrlol wrote:
It's not like Tom Boonen can completely re-shape his body so it fits a climber: small and light.
Indurain, Ullrich, Pereiro all won the tour and aren't small and light
at least one is doped, one like doddy said from a break and the other was before my time.
but none of them started as classic riders/sprinters (again, indurain I dont know much about)
most of the riders he was racing were doped so it's not really a valis point
the second part of my post is though. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:13
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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t-baum wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
everyones laughing but no-ones said anything comprehensive that will prove me wrong. i've had an answer for everything so far.
and why are people getting personal? this is a forum where opinions can be expressed. i've got an opinion and so far no one's proved otherwise, who's the real idiot t-baum? me with a full arguement or someone who's only contribution is 4 words with no point at all.
Tour 2012:
 thats quite good
i was just using boonen as an example. all i was saying is why can't someone with the strength to spring at 40+ mph use that strength to go up hills? |
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| Xavier |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:15
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 933
Joined: 21-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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because if he loses weight to go over the hills he loses strength as well
his ratio is not good, his body is not made for it and he lacks the talent!
(sorry for the caps earlier, it wasnt intentional)
Edited by Xavier on 26-02-2009 17:16
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:15
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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Waghlon wrote:
Ruben wrote:
all i'm saying is why can't one skill be transfered into another?
BECAUSE ALL HUMANS HAVE THEIR LIMITS.
Again. Every human is different, has different physical abilites and you can't just convert easily... it's proven again and again in cycling history. But you seem to be oblivious to that
You know what, if i start practicing really hard, shed some 50 kilos and avoid EPO, i can win TdF in 10 years time. I mean, ill be 28 then, in my best age physically, and then ill train sprinting for another 5 years and win M-SR just for show.
why not? |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 08:28
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| mrlol |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:16
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5005
Joined: 24-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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ringo182 wrote:
Waghlon wrote:
Ruben wrote:
all i'm saying is why can't one skill be transfered into another?
BECAUSE ALL HUMANS HAVE THEIR LIMITS.
Again. Every human is different, has different physical abilites and you can't just convert easily... it's proven again and again in cycling history. But you seem to be oblivious to that
You know what, if i start practicing really hard, shed some 50 kilos and avoid EPO, i can win TdF in 10 years time. I mean, ill be 28 then, in my best age physically, and then ill train sprinting for another 5 years and win M-SR just for show.
why not?
oh god, if that was serious. please shoot me. |
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| Xavier |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:17
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 933
Joined: 21-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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*pang pang* |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:19
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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your all getting side-tracked by the boonen comment that i only used as an example. the main point of my arguement is that if you were to train a relitively fit man like a pro for a few years, you could turn him into a pro. somehow it's turned into a mutant sprinter/climber debate.
my original point was if i was to train like a pro for about 5 years then i would be good enough to ride the TdF. That is the only debate i'll be taking part in from now on because the other is getting silly and lots of people are missing the point. |
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| ruben |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:20
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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ringo182 wrote:
t-baum wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
everyones laughing but no-ones said anything comprehensive that will prove me wrong. i've had an answer for everything so far.
and why are people getting personal? this is a forum where opinions can be expressed. i've got an opinion and so far no one's proved otherwise, who's the real idiot t-baum? me with a full arguement or someone who's only contribution is 4 words with no point at all.
Tour 2012:
thats quite good
i was just using boonen as an example. all i was saying is why can't someone with the strength to spring at 40+ mph use that strength to go up hills?
You need a lesson in human physica. It doesn't work that way.
Power in a sprint is a different kind of power then power on threshold level up a climb |
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| mrlol |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:21
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5005
Joined: 24-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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It been said more then enough times but I'll just quote one randomly...
Ruben wrote:
all i'm saying is why can't one skill be transfered into another?
BECAUSE ALL HUMANS HAVE THEIR LIMITS.
Again. Every human is different, has different physical abilites and you can't just convert easily... it's proven again and again in cycling history. But you seem to be oblivious to that |
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| Xavier |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:21
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 933
Joined: 21-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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and our point is that you oversimplify cycling to "training will get you there", which is rubbish, you need a lot more than just training |
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| mrlol |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:22
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5005
Joined: 24-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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you can compare it to the 1-8 potentials in PCM |
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| t-baum |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:23
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2153
Joined: 07-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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2013:...
Macquet wrote:
"We all know that wasn't the real footage of the Worlds anyway. That was just the staged footage to perpetuate the coverup that it was actually Vinokourov that won the race."
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| Xavier |
Posted on 26-02-2009 17:25
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 933
Joined: 21-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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lol |
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